Tai Ji form

[bodhitree]

Hellow all!
I'd like to hear what you guys think about this. I Recently went to a sifu other than my own because he made it sound like he had some really good training lineage (which my sifu does also). He performed the Yang long form a little differently than we do. There were different transisitional movements and different stepping. When I showed him how we perform it his response was "Thats completely wrong, thats not how it is." He said the only way to seperate Yin and Yang is to have your weight distributd exactly30/70 and he said you need very small stances to accomplish this. He said anything else is double weighted. I seen photographs of Yang Chen Fu and other old Yang masters who had wider stances. from what I understand the only important thin in your stances is Yang's 10 principles (hollow chest, open mingmen, ect.). He also put down Shaolin styles when I told him I practice those also. I kept my mouth shut and now just appreciate my sifu even more.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I'd go along with him on the 70/30 rule as if it is 50/50 then it certainly is double weighted, so in that respect he's completely correct. 50/50 weight bearings make movements slower to execute.
However widee stances are good espcially if you're progressing in your art.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

who said that? and who is your regular teacher?

I have heard however that taiji and shaolin use differnt energies so you either need to practice one or the other. studying anything external is counter productive to soft internal training.

ma

[MaFuYee]

you should have challenged him.

that would have been the only correct response. - when you did not, he already lost exactly 70% of his respect for you.

[Laughing Cow]

Every teacher will do the forms slightly different and emphasize different things.
Even 2 people that studied under the same teacher, as the teachers forms and execution will also change during his studies.

As for the 50/50 vs 70/30 vs whatever ratio, I would say it depends.

FWIW, my understanding is that "double weighting" has nothing to do with weight distribution to the legs, but rather is a flaw in your forms execution and application of the TJQ principles.
Chen TJQ at times uses a 50/50 stance, and every stance/movement where the weight is shifted from one foot to the other will have to pass the 50/50 mark.

For any MA teacher to point to a certain way of forms execution and saying "This is wrong", IMHO, shows a lack of respect.

Just some thoughts.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

adding to what laughing cow said, double weighted is also the inability to change weight quickly between your feet. when you fight you have to change quickly between 100/0, 90/10, 80/20,70/30, 60/40, 50/50 and degrees inbetween those as well.

ma

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

It's all movement.. we transition through a 50/50 point, we transition through a 100/0 point.. weight distribution is constantly flowing.. to focus on a particular posture/weight ratio is less significant than refining movement so that as you pass through that "posture" the weight distribution occurrs naturally.. posture focus tends to break the form into fragmented snapshots rather than a continuous video.. of equal importance is how to maintain your rooting at the various weight distributions...

Just another perspective, Be well..

[bodhitree]

None of our stances in taiji are 50/50 weight distribution, it may be 60/40 or whatever else, its just that he said you had to have these very small stances or you were double weighted. My Sifu does teach Shaolin and Taiji together, however in sparring he wants all of it to come out. I don't challenge anyone, I'm only for freindly competition to help one another grow, not to prove a point(" I just thought the man was very ridgid when taiji should be alive and changing. I also think my regular Sifu does a great job of putting intent for combat applications in his teaching. My Sifu's Sifu learned from Zhang Lou Ping, who practiced all 5 family styles (theres an article about him in this months Tai Chi magazine). This other guy said he studied from Jou Tsung Wha, whos book I think is one of the best Taiji recources available in the english language. Thanks for your posts!@#$%^&

[Kevin Wallbridge]

I agree with the Cow. The idea that shuang-zhong has to do with weight in the feet is not clear from the classics. If you read the texts where this is dicussed you can see that they are talking about the context of contact with the opponent. Double-heavy is probably a clearer translation, meaning its about touch not stance.

In Chen there are many places where the weight is even between the feet, but there is lots of freedom of movement due to the Chan-si-jin in the legs (you do spiral you legs too don't you?). Just add to one or release another spiral and you are rapidly shifting weight, much more responsively than using the legs as pistons IMO.

Just because the weight is even doesn't imply the legs are neutral.

[Vapour]

Some taijiquan style like mine do 99-1 weight distribution. Other like chen has much more even weight distribution. In competitive push hand, single weight is more of metaphorical concept than actual one.

I usually don't accord much respect to someone who claim to be the only legitimate souce of truth,

[Vapour]

This article discuss the different approach between Yang and Chen Man Ching style but sitll relevant to your question.

http://www.sataichi.com/compare.html

[Laughing Cow]

FYI.

Push hands is the kung fu of knowing others. As for movement and stillness, although it is to know others, you must still ask yourself. If you arrange yourself well, when others touch you, you don't move a hair. Follow the opportunity and meet his jing (internal force) and let him naturally fall outward. If you feel someplace (in your body) is powerless, it is double weighted and unchanging. You must first seek (the defect) in yin and yang, opening and closing. Know yourself and know others: in one hundred battles you will win one hundred times.

Stand like a perfectly balanced scale and
move like a turning wheel.

Sinking to one side allows movement to flow;
being double-weighted is sluggish.

Anyone who has spent years of practice and still cannot neutralize,
and is always controlled by his opponent,
has not apprehended the fault of double-weightedness.

To avoid this fault one must distinguish yin from yang.

I will post more as I find them going through my archives, actually looking for the reference that sez "even the small finger can be double weighted".

Cheers.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Now you know what wisdom is my friend. You have graduated to the next level. Congradulations. Have a good week.

[bodhitree]

Thanks all
I think yeilding and advancing can happen with many different weight distributions. Have a gaoxiang time