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Thread: Are MA really useful for Self Defense?

  1. #1
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    Are MA really useful for Self Defense?

    Just a quick question.

    Are MA really useful for Self Defense purpose?
    For me MA are fighting arts and not SD-arts.

    I also don't know of many stories where masters of old used their MA against the dark alley assault or similar.

    Yes, they were fighters that did challenge matches, duels and partook in fights, but did they use it to prevent muggings and similar?

    Laws also haven't changed that much during the centuries, in fact I think we could say that they got more lenient.

    Example:
    Chen Wang Ting hid back in his village after killing an opponent during a fight in order to prevent prosecution and possible execution.

    Most places also forbad duelling and similar thus we got "secret" rooftop fights and so on.

    What's your opinion & take on the subject?
    Last edited by Laughing Cow; 05-05-2003 at 04:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Fighting is a sometimes part of self defense. The difference that I've been taught is fighting/combat is mutual to both parties be it Campas and De La Hoya in the ring or Special Forces and al Queda in Afghanistan with the goal to defeat the other party. Self defense is initiated by one party (the aggressor) with the goal of the other party (defender) being to survive.
    Last edited by rogue; 05-05-2003 at 04:58 PM.
    I quit after getting my first black belt because the school I was a part of was in the process of lowering their standards A painfully honest KC Elbows

    The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

    Dam nit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

    DM


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  3. #3
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    Agreed that MA can be used/adapted for SD, but it is not their prime-purpose or the goal towards which they were created for.

    For me there is a difference between winning a fight and surviving a confrontation.

    Last edited by Laughing Cow; 05-05-2003 at 05:07 PM.

  4. #4

    Thumbs up Been thinking about the same thing lately

    This might be a CMA thing. Take a look at aikido, or late edo-period jujutsu for example - both arts have virtually no "offensive movements", whereas CMA moves in/out with both defensive and offensive tactics all the time.

    It might be the Japanese arts, which were considered more defensive, earned the name "self defence" before the public at large were able to see more balanced systems like many CMA.

    To bring the thread back to its central focus, I agree CMA are fighting arts primarily, although can be used for self defence. Some arts are self defense only though, and aren't fighting arts, making the two areas often shared, but not always one and the same with all arts.

  5. #5
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    Self defence is a broad term and can be a little misleading. Sometimes defence is not defence but offence . And self defence covers so much more than how to handle an attacker - it also encompasses avoiding the situations where you might be attacked.

    I think MA is about the art of fighting, not just defence. While it has useful applications in self defence, its primary aim was not just defence.
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
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  6. #6
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    Re: Been thinking about the same thing lately

    Originally posted by sing fu
    This might be a CMA thing. Take a look at aikido, or late edo-period jujutsu for example - ...
    Agreed, considering that during and after the Edo period japan was united and pretty much at peace.
    Which is in stark contrast to the muromachi and earlier periods.

    Cheers.

  7. #7
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    "What's your opinion & take on the subject?"

    Well I've seen quite a few real fights. I've seen BOXING used quite easily. I've seen Wrestling( double leg ) used. I've even seen the judo/karate/CMA foot sweep while controlling an opponent in the clinch used also. I think any style can be used as long as u can control your FEAR and ANGER.
    A

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by LEGEND
    I think any style can be used as long as u can control your FEAR and ANGER.
    And THAT is the tough part.

    Around where I live we recently had a series of random attacks involving:
    1.) Drive-by slashings.
    2.) Acid being thrown at targets
    3.) Random knife attacks where the attacker suddenly appears and starts slashing and stabbing.

    OK, said that make that 4 attacks in a City of a few Million, but it makes you think how well are we prepared for those random violent attacks.

    Cheers.

  9. #9
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    The answer is yes.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Laughing Cow


    And THAT is the tough part.

    Around where I live we recently had a series of random attacks involving:
    1.) Drive-by slashings.
    2.) Acid being thrown at targets
    3.) Random knife attacks where the attacker suddenly appears and starts slashing and stabbing.

    OK, said that make that 4 attacks in a City of a few Million, but it makes you think how well are we prepared for those random violent attacks.

    Cheers.
    But that is akin to asking how a MA would defend against a sniper attack. You can train your environmental awareness to a certain point, but sometimes there are things that you just cannot defend against unless you choose to live a life of paranoia.
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  11. #11
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    LOL...at the SNIPER attack. I was paranoid as hell! I hope those 2 *******s FRY!!!
    A

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by joedoe
    But that is akin to asking how a MA would defend against a sniper attack. You can train your environmental awareness to a certain point, but sometimes there are things that you just cannot defend against unless you choose to live a life of paranoia.
    Of course, you can't prepare for all eventuality.

    But does going to the kwoon and exercising your forms and sparring prepare you any better than NOT being trained in MA at all??

    IMO, most of the MA styles teach you do fight, but not the skills to survive the urban jungle even though they many claim to teach SD and similar.

  13. #13
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    Like I said before, self defence is such a broad term. Ultimately MA mostly try to train you for the combat scenario of self defence, and other aspects take 2nd place.

    I can't think of any self defence advice (other than not being there) that you could give that would help someone protect themselves from a drive-by. Usually that kind of thing is being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by joedoe
    Like I said before, self defence is such a broad term. Ultimately MA mostly try to train you for the combat scenario of self defence, and other aspects take 2nd place.
    And this why I am asking are MA really good for SD. IMHO, it is the other aspects that have the most value in SD.

    Too many people sign up for SD thinking that by winning a Pub fight they defended themselves.
    Or to beat off someone that wants to fight with them in a pub or similar location. THAT is not SD in my book.


    I can't think of any self defence advice (other than not being there) that you could give that would help someone protect themselves from a drive-by. Usually that kind of thing is being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    There is NO way to defend yourself against a long range weapon attack, besides wearing armour.

    Personally, I am not too worried about the slashing and acid attacks unless the go for my face.
    I got a good and sturdy leather jacket that will protect me and is designed to take a LOT of damage.

  15. #15
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    As they say, the best defence is to not be there. If you know how to avoid the crappy situations, then you are less likely to need the combat aspects of self defence. Environmental awareness and common sense are your most important self defence weapons
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

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