Footwork - the most neglected area of Ving Tsun??

[stuartm]

Hi all,

Im really doing my students heads in lately by spending increasing amounts of time on footwork. From my own experience of being a student, there is never enough time dedicated to the 'simple' art of moving. The more time i spend teaching, the more time i dedicate to footwork.

I know mine is far from brilliant and wondered what others views were on footwork and its importance. I for one, stress the importance of footwork early on in my students development, most notably by getting them to practsie nothing else but lok sau and stepping / shifting with no attacks for at least 15-20 mins every class.

Would also be grateful to hear of any videos out there which focus on footwork specifically. I gather Sifu Augustine Fong excels in this area.

Regards, Stuart

[teazer]

I agree. It's all well & good for people to say you can just rely on what's in SLT, but not for the first few years. In that time, you need to know how to angle, advance etc.
The downside though is that it's difficult to get people moving in a correct fashion until their body has become better integrated.
They develop bad habits etc. which have to be worked out over time.

[black and blue]

In the organisation I am a part of, footwork and body movement is very emphasised. The Bong/Lap drill, Dan Chi Sau and Seung Chi Sau are all learnt from a stationary position, but my Sifu introduces movement into these drills as soon as possible.

Poon Sau in most classes is done stationary for five or ten minutes and then the rest of our Chi Sau practise (plain old poon sau , or Gor Sau is done on-the-go).

A useful demo I've seen several times is a drill (say, a Pak Sau drill or a Tan Sau drill) done at full speed, then show slowly, then show several times without the hand movement (e.g. Pak or Tan), just the footwork to illustrate how the body has to move away from the line of attack... it also FORCES (ha ha) the less observant students like myself to what our Sifu's feet.

This is best illustrated when you are the person punching him. His footwork is such that you always feel as though you're punching air.

[wingchunalex]

I definately think footwork is over looked a lot. Having good footwork is the most important aspect of defence, its not the hands. If you aren't their how can they hit you?

I think it is important to practice footwork drills outside of chi sau and lop sau. islolating the movement of the feet with the hands held in bai jong is a good way to get light on your feet but rooted at the same time.

[Ultimatewingchun]

The single biggest difference between Traditional Wing Chun and VingTsun (I've done both systems) is the amount of shifting, sidesteppeing, and attacking footwork that exists in TWC. (There are other major differences as well, but the footwork is the biggest).

Get your hands on the 5 volume video tape set that Grandmaster
Willliam Cheung put out about 4 years ago...his website is:
www.cheungswingchun.com

[yuanfen]

Victor-

sidestepping,attacking and shifting - differences yes-- in the way its done in many wc lines compared to twc. Differences do not mean that the functions dont exist. I shift, sidestep and attck too-
nowhere near in a TWC way and I dont see the need for changing.
PS/btw

While some of your statements are off the wall- I found your summary of what your sifu thought about another system and their similarities- interesting. I dont see the need for further elaboration by me anyway.

[45degree fist]

You should have your students drill chum kiu over and over. this is where wing chun starts to grow its wheels. plus they can acquire the needed chum kiu attributes.

[Wingman]

Originally posted by 45degree fist
You should have your students drill chum kiu over and over. this is where wing chun starts to grow its wheels. plus they can acquire the needed chum kiu attributes.

IMHO, even before a student is in Chum Kiu level, he can start practicing footwork. In our WC practice, students practice stationary drills. Once they are proficient with the drills, they can incorporate footwork in these drills. Of course, Chum Kiu will give them a deeper understanding of footwork once they get there.

[TjD]

Originally posted by Wingman

IMHO, even before a student is in Chum Kiu level, he can start practicing footwork. In our WC practice, students practice stationary drills. Once they are proficient with the drills, they can incorporate footwork in these drills. Of course, Chum Kiu will give them a deeper understanding of footwork once they get there.

how can you learn to walk, if you dont know how to stand?

theres a reason the drills are stationary before chum kiu. IMO the system follows a very logical progression and if you rush it because students don't want to put in the time then their lack of effort will show.

if you don't know the stance and practice footwork; you're simply practicing wrong footwork and wont accomplish anything in your wing chun. this is because the footwork is based on the stance. a poor idea (or no idea) of what the stance is will lead to footwork that is not compatible with a good wing chun stance. beginners have at best a superficial knowledge of what the legs should be doing. no need to have them ingrain bad habits to unlearn later.

[namron]

Our kwoon has a heavy slant on footwork.

This is probably because my sifu is not heavily built and thus relies more on speed and evasion.

Part of our warm up always involves footwook, right from a beginers level, we try to emphasize to our students the concepts behind evading linear and circular attacks (ie: stepping off the line of a straight attack and stepping outside the arc or cutting the arc of a circular attack).

The difference between getting sconed and evading is often a heartbeat or half step apart.

[CLOUD ONE]

One of the fundamentals of wing chun is to use less!!!

So why all the emphasis on moving or footwork?

Footwork is only for the people who haven't practised enough on their root skills!!!

Whatever force is coming to you you have to receive- do you receive moving or in a stationary manner?

Once you learn the stance properly you can decide whether you want to move or stay and whichever manner you want to move, fly through the air or kick or step or pivot.

without the correct principles of stance and footwork your balance would be impaired so your defence weak.

But not many people practice enough on stance i.e SLT to know the difference

[teazer]

Originally posted by 45degree fist
You should have your students drill chum kiu over and over. this is where wing chun starts to grow its wheels. plus they can acquire the needed chum kiu attributes.

IMO drilling a form over & over is one of the least efficient ways of learning specific movements.
How can they perform the form before they know the moves within it? Unless of course you want to stand there & correct every little positional 'fault' someone else is doing. How efficient is that??

[teazer]

Originally posted by CLOUD ONE
Footwork is only for the people who haven't practised enough on their root skills!!!

I agree strong stancework is crucial. By your argument though, why is there any footwork in the forms at all?
Similarly, if beginners 'haven't practiced enough of their root skills" and would thus need footwork, who would?

[marcelino31]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
The single biggest difference between Traditional Wing Chun and VingTsun (I've done both systems) is the amount of shifting, sidesteppeing, and attacking footwork that exists in TWC. (There are other major differences as well, but the footwork is the biggest).

Get your hands on the 5 volume video tape set that Grandmaster
Willliam Cheung put out about 4 years ago...his website is:
www.cheungswingchun.com

Traditional Wing Chun makes a big deal about having the so called footwork. I have talked to several different Wing Chun Sifus about this and the consensus is that they all have their own footwork which is comparable to anything that TWC does.
TWC footwork mostly advocates stepping and not dragging the feet. William Cheung, in one of his seminars, explained to me that you move by picking your feet up like a horse; you can see this approach to stepping quite clearly in the book "Advanced Wing Chun", chum kiu section.

Other sifus claim that you should avoid lifting the heel off the ground to much when stepping as the idea is to focus your energy forward when moving with the movement being intiated from the waist.

Another observation I made is that TWC does not do much pivoting. They would rather step with the pressure as opposed to pivoting with it.

TWC advocates fighting on the blindside. I think for a big person this can work but I think its better for a small person to fight on the inside. It can be very difficult to get to someones blindside if they face you square on. Also applying pressure to someone from the blindside does not have the same destablizing affect on their structure as if you were to apply pressure to their COG from an inside position.

BTW, I have the 5 video set and only basic stepping patterns are shown on it.

Cheungs footwork patterns seem to repeat themselves over and over again in all the (moving) empty hand forms -- ck, bj, bjd,mj.

Forms basically start with foot circles to get into neutral stance
followed by side stepping into a side stance and moving into a front stance by moving your back leg through the middle. The T-step concept is not unique to TWC and I have seen some WC heavyweights critizing the T-step as not good WC. (weight all on back leg and base is to narrow)

[45degree fist]

Originally posted by teazer


IMO drilling a form over & over is one of the least efficient ways of learning specific movements.
How can they perform the form before they know the moves within it? Unless of course you want to stand there & correct every little positional 'fault' someone else is doing. How efficient is that??

Drilling a specific form over and over again is probably the best way to learn specific movements, hence Si num tao.

and if they are not ready for chum kiu dont let them do it this was merely a suggestion for stuartm he asked for advice. Unless the advice is totally ignorant or nieve dont ridicule it.

and if somones form needs corrections then work on it.