Rene - HFY Champion!

[reneritchie]

William E.

While a knowledgeable and important member of the HFY family, I must respecfully, with utmost respect ask that you refrain from responding to anything but questions, and in any way but politely.

In any good WCK, we do not clash with force, do not resist it, do not take a shot to give one. Just as your SMK and HFY formulae can be applied to combat, I believe they can be applied to forum posting, and that we can all achieve a state of effortless exchange, where we don't square off and trade harsh words like Rock'em Sock'em Robots on adrenal enhancers, but where, if we feel attacked, we make sure we have our own self identity intact, then we position ourselves properly, and in the proper time and space, provide for no challenges and deliver our polite, respectful, chock'full'a goodness answers from Kiu Sao (or only if they defeat our Kiu Sao, Chi Sao).

Not only is this condusive to my (currently retarded due to some setbackish postings) bridge rebuilding, field replanting, highway repaving efforts, but it lets us train our WCK *and* prepare ourselves for the day when the 25th Amendment might be reduced to putting one of us (or you, at least, since I'm not a native born Yank) in the Oval Office.

In Semper, but not necessarily Proctor, Hoc, etc.

[reneritchie]

Joy,

While I thank you for your continued uppaginations of this thread and its exponentially larger views, I humbly and protoculturally request that if you see it getting diverted, rather than hopping on for an off road adventure, you grab the wheel and help get us back on track,

In NAS, but not in CAR, etc.

[reneritchie]

Terence,

Thank you for your encouragements not to settle for less. I will go to trial and hope for more (even though, unfortunately, forces both within and without are threatening my happy home).

To your questionsmobile, Robin!

1. While I have no technical knowledge through which to answer your question (though as long term (but currently ignored) supporters Sheldon and Roger such knowledge is completely unnecessary) allow me to stick a fork in it anyway. Having seen some HFY, and some Weng Chun Kuen, I would have to agree with embassador par excellence Levi that from pure movement mapping choreographical perspective, there does not seem to be a great or compelling overlap. I have not spoke to either Gee sifu or Hoffmann sifu WRT their opinions and while the VTM has offered some of a non-choreographical (ie. religious, theoretical, etc.), this is not a VTM thread, and I'll leave it for the other thread where Levi et al are already discussing it.

2. Again, skipping footloose and fancy free over Benny Meng and the VTM (this is a HFY thread, after all), I'm not currently aware of any evidence which says conclusively the individuals you name trained in WCK, nor which states emphatically that they did not. Absent that, and given the foggy murk of fringe ethnical cultural activities and their records, it becomes a matter of personal belief, for each person to sort into their own likelihood compartments, but still with respect towards any arts oral traditions.

It fills my heart 2 sizes 2 big to hear of your newly rekindled and potentially ready to barbeque interest in HFY, please keep it up, and keep it clean,

In some corpuses (corpusi?) being more habeus than others, etc.

[reneritchie]

Train,

Thank you for a blank posts worth of upagination! And thank you for asking my opinion!

Please be aware that unless you've checked with the moderator (Lord Morpheus the Second [Wing Chun] of the Endless) and he has confirmed that John Weiland and Grendel are in fact posting from the same IP, and thus likely are the same person, or you work high enough up in the internet secret government that you can, Jerry Bruckheimer action movie starring Will Smith like, trace someone's internet activity to their door, making charges like that can easily be disproven and then, with a history of false and silly charges behind you, make any future posts fodder for the mock squad.

As HFY champ, I think it would do everyone even remotely associated with HFY a world of good not to get involved with anything even remotely resembling online BS. It only makes us look bad, and them look less bad. This is something most 3rd graders are aware of, when they hit the idiot in class just before the teacher looks, then get hit back and laugh as the idiot in class is sent for a time out (or dunce cap break in ye olden days of yore).

And I think anyone, whether they consider themselves supporter or detractor, should be placed on ignore rather than responded to if they attempt to hijack this beautiful and lustrous thread!

The clown putting on the class, etc.

[yuanfen]

Mike Mathews sez:
Sometimes it seems like an interrogation rather than conversation
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not think that it is an interrogation.
Rene is trying his best to geta decent conversation going...
despite the sarcasm of a couple of HFY practitioners very recently on this thread.
But at the end of the day- its about fuzzy claims- basically-
its about evidence and logic...(no "proof by authority" or repeating the same claims). Just the factual and evidentiary
details on the major claims---

1, where's the Chan?

2, Where' the history?

3. where's the "science"?

[reneritchie]

Tom,

Thank you for helping rein in the herd! I am almost tempted to appoint you lieutenant (pronounced left-tenant here, eh?) champion!

As you rightly point out, nothing unrelated to this thread should be allowed to exist here.

A red alert on far off Vulcan, etc.

[reneritchie]

Rolling_Hand This person is on your Ignore List.
desertwingchun2 This person is on your Ignore List.
Phenix This person is on your Ignore List.

Would currently on universal and ever further reaching ignore list people please respectfully refrain from posting on this unblemishable thread?

Though I am sure you are passionate, sincere, and unfortuantely lactose intolerant, your lack of self control, self editing, and like the pitcher who keeps throwing potatos but refuses to leave the game, your inablity to put the cause above yourselves is hurting that which the rest of us are all here to help.

But this thread is not about you.

Invested in loss (not just tech stock 8(, etc.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by reneritchie
John W.,

Thank you for your fairness, but sorry for your hurt. Please apply R.I.C.E to your say, and rest up for future forthcomingness!

Although as a youngster I sported blond highlights, I have never been called fair before---ruggedly handsome, yes, dark, like Cyrano, inside and out, but not merely fair as my redoubtable friends can attest. Anyway, kudos for trying. I'll likely forget about your good efforts soon enough and it will be business as usual amonst us forum attendees. We well know the truth; you're the devil incarnate.

Improvements, which must come from all sides of this long contention, will be slow but is possible, and yes, the ignore, for long term and troublesome supporters like Sheldon and Roger,

Others can read or read into their posts if they want, but there are other forums for the content free minions of know-nothingness, so I shall continue to have them on ignore setting.

Back on the subject, one minor improvement might be to list how many sides there actually are now as I have lost count. So, again mainly in the interest of pageupping and not at all from the curiosity which killed the cat, how many sides are there, O champion of HFY?

for passionate yet antagonistic HFY family members like David and Tony,

Never heard of them. Who can keep up with all the new couplings on this thread. I wish them good in their new endeavors and best wishes for any issue of their tryst.

and for knowledgeable but hijacking members like Hendrik is essential to maintaining the chrome-like shine of this thread's on-topicness. Please apply liberally.

I've been a shining example of on-topicness, haven't I? Hendrik too has a special place on the thread and you shouldn't imply he is losing his hair. His is a distinguished appearance. As one of those who has gone out of his way to ask insightful and pageupping questions (I almost wrote "insighful," so what the heck, it's one more line to mention it) and answer all which came his way. Surely, he should receive a day pass from you, or at least backstage tickets, if not to X-Men, then the Matrix redux, which I go to see tomorrow at the Century 22 Theater in San Jose (Theatre in Canuck). I'll be the one with the white carnation in my lapel. While at one time I questioned Hendrick's input, I've seen the light. Lord, ahmighty, I'se seen the light.

Pass the hat.

I'm trying now to think of something to add here to increase the page-uppiness, so a reprise of David Williams ode to our ancestress is in order:

To the tune of Bananarama's "Venus"...

And Ng Mui was Her Name
David Williams

Abbott on a Mountain top,
Bil Jeeing like a darting flame,
Goddess of economy of motion

And Ng Moi was her name...
Yeah! She's got it, Praise spring time she's got it.

I'm you're Sijo, I'm your jong shi,
Chi Sao me sire!

06-24-2002 10:33 PM

Such high art should not be lost.

Respegooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaallllllll!

A'voir-lamma-lamma-ding-dong, or whatever passes time on the frozen tundra.

[Chango]

Rene,
I have to say that you are doing well in comunicating to the rest of the list members (outside of HFY) however it is at the cost of accuracy. It is only natural for you to use your only points of reference (other systems) to discuss HFY. You don't have even the base level of understanding of HFY. This is where you are only helping in creating illusions about HFY. As you've alluded to HFY has a very specific nature. I understand that you feel that the HFY terms confuse others and create a language barrier between HFY members and others. But this is where you have made a mistake. Being a HFY member I can see that you are only helping others to misunderstand HFY. You should consult with a HFY member and really examine what is meant by the terms being used in HFY.

I agree the platforn of polotics and lineage disputes is not the way. Your "new approach" to this topic is less painful politically however it is damaging to the understanding of HFY. None the less both sides loose in both cases. You really should consult with a HFY member before assuminig and butching HFY.

Don chi sau in the since of what is in Yip man is nothing like the single hand platform in HFY. There is no HFY Don chi sau. This is not a termonology problem but a problem with some assuming at a glance! Not understanding the HFY explination for this platform.

I know you have had a problem with terms like "most efficient" however HFY does not only offer it's own challenges. Every part of the system offers the student an opertunity to find a more efficient way. If it is not the most efficient way it is not HFY! So at what point do you realize that you maybe building bridges (which is good) but also contributing more tward misunderstanding. You have members of HFY in San Franciso and in Ohio willing to help you in your explination. You intentions might be pure but your lack of understand get's in the way of you seeing where you are doing HFY a disservice in the name of polotics. Maybe you don't see it. But from the experienced size it is more then clear. My kung fu brothers and I have noticed this right off the bat. Maybe once you get more information you can go back and make corrections.


Chango

Chango (Saat geng sau)

[kj]

With all due respect, Chango, instead of complaining about René misleading others of us, perhaps you might consider his approach instead. Using directness and tact to explain the technical aspects more accurately, and leaving personal attributions aside will be far less damaging to perceptions and relationships overall, and an enormous service to the system you practice. A wee bit of humor to nurture the human element and keep things light doesn't hurt either.

Levi and Savi have done a wonderful job at this, despite it being an often onerous task. I think many would do well by their examples, not only in HFY discussions, but in other discussions and topics as well. Please help all of us - your fellows in training, and the rest of us alike - in building these bridges. I would much prefer to read, learn and become better informed about the nature of your practice rather than cringe every time I see a new thread or post relating to the subject. I want to look forward to your posts and those of others, not dread them.

While René has tried to be helpful in illustrating the what to the best of his current ability, his more overwhelming contribution has been in showing the way. He has invested and offered a gift as much to you and others who love and practice in your system as to all of us.

How we deal with, interact with, represent, and demonstrate respect and consideration toward each other matters immensely. Despite the illusions and twisted deceptions of the internet, there is a real flesh-and-blood human being behind every keyboard and every post. Let's not miss this great opportunity.

As you have identified areas where René may have been less than accurate, offering clarifications on those specifically would be a simple, direct, and efficient way to start, and make your own investment in rebuilding bridges. Even if the general "we" still don't "get it," at least our connections can be strengthened and hope retained for the future.

Sincere Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Marcos Hsiang]

Mike,

There are rumors about a HFY event in my country. I'm writing from Brazil. I did not know anything about that system but got interested anyway. Searching for information on the net, I found that Cheung Sifu's website in Australia and there I found the same tree which is presented by the Ving Tsun Museum. That's why I thought Cheung Sifu was teaching HFY. I had not the slighest idea on how political blabla spin around CMA in the United States. Sorry if my words sounded harsh... I use this translator software and sometimes things go wrong.
Hung Fa Yi seems to be very interesting and involving. It's natural that some envy and trouble arise... and pass.

Hsiang

[InfiniteApogee]

Originally posted by Chango
Being a HFY member I can see that you are only helping others to misunderstand HFY.
....
I agree the platforn of polotics and lineage disputes is not the way. Your "new approach" to this topic is less painful politically however it is damaging to the understanding of HFY.

With all seriousness, this is about the most short sighted comment a hfy person could make right now. Rene is trying to show you guys how to answer questions without sounding like overreactive thugs.

It does not matter how technically correct he is. If everyone who asks a questions is either blown off or given some long winded buzz word tirade, no on is going to give a rat's ass about HFY.

Even when someone has specifically said they are only trying to demonstrate better ways deal with people and answer questions, all you can say is "you are not properly representing the truly humongous wonderful rightesnous of HFY" (exagerated paraphrase ). That shows a lot right there. A bit self-centered and short sighted I say.

There are people interested in seeing what, if anything, hfy has to discuss. With ego-centric pouts like this though, that curiosity dwindles.

To UltimateWingChun:
Why keep *****ing at Rene for answers when EVERYONE knows **** well he doesn't have them. The purpose of this thead is restated every few posts and yet you want him to give you answers? I see some corelation between this and Chango's post. Think about it.


Cherenkov radiation from wormhole passage, etc
(Sorry, couldn't resist Rene )
Clark

[KPM]

WOW! It took me two sittings to get through this whole thread! Wonderful job Rene! Its too bad there are still some of the HFY members that don't appreciate what you are trying to do. But I do have a question to contribute. Earlier in this thread the idea of being "battlefield proven" was brought up. Now, according to the most recent magazine article about HFY, the system was developed to train soldiers to fight a rebellion. The article explains that there are two levels of the 1st form....one level of understanding for the common soldier/fighter that is not going to teach someone else, and another level for the someone who will actually pass on the system. So my question is this....is there any evidence that HFY was actually widely taught to a military body? If it had been, wouldn't all the secretness surrounding it be rather hard to maintain? Are there stories of these soldiers actually using their HFY skills in battle? An army trained to use WCK, even a small army, one would think would leave some trace behind.

Keith

[kj]

Hi David,

Originally posted by desertwingchun2
I don't recall you posting to them then.

Have you already forgotten my to attempt to assist Grendel in self-edification on the "Wing Chun and Kiu Sau!" thread? Were you around in the heyday of Red5Angel? And those were only among my public admonitions.

I do indeed love my Wing Chun "family," just as I expect you do and should love yours. However, it is not at the complete expense of what I feel is right; I openly confess to partisan feelings, but I work very hard not to be blinded by them.

If your point is that I don't spank everyone on the forum who deserves it, you're absolutely right. I already have a full time job with overtime hours. I tend to reserve any of my well-intended however misguided comments, not for those posts or persons that are most egregious, but for moments in time where I feel there may be hope with someone. Hope that saying something might, in some alternate universe at least, lead to a more positive outcome. Furthermore, it is my strong predilection to "try" to lead by example rather than by scolding, though I realize some people pick up on such cues more readily than others.

In the case of Chango, the reason I addressed him is not because I fail to care for you, him or your brethren in training; to the contrary, I addressed him because I do care. I'm sorry if it appeared otherwise, and odd as it may seem, I wish you all the best. I fully realize there are flesh-and-blood people, complete with legitimate feelings, needs, and pride on the other side of the keyboard, and regardless of the subject at hand. I may be more sympathetic than most, inasmuch as I have found myself on the painful end of odd and unfortunate "internet" misconceptions in the past, and took the opportunity to do a lot of reflection about that.

BTW, are there any women training in HFY? It occurred to me just earlier that I have never known or heard of any yet.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[kj]

P.S. David and Everyone,

With regards to the way members of my "family" have acted, your family, and almost every other family, I have been utterly disappointed, often frustrated, on occasion downright embarrassed with the manner in which pretty much all of them have weighed in on this topic at one time or another. Now that I've posted on the thread rather than putting everyone on ignore, I guess I'll have to count myself guilty as well. I hope that somehow makes you feel better.

If René can't save us from ourselves, I pray God still will.

Regards,
- kj