May-Trix

[SevenStar]

The original was great and raised alot of interesting talk on several topics from religion to computers. Check this site out:

http://theredpillproject.tripod.com/

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Former castleva
No offense but what is it about Matrix?
I cannot stand it/them,and so many seem to love those.

It's the only franchise where you can see sci fi, big special effects, hong kong style fight choreography, and lots of sunglasses, in equal proportions.

The reason that works so well is that the hong kong style is fast paced, and while there are other movies using it, the matrix is done by one of the best choreographers from Hong Kong, and the matrix franchise uses far more of the choreography than say star wars, the only other truly big budget film I can think of that combines some of these elements. Most other movies either use it very little, or use it as the central action(Jet Li movies and other martial arts movies), and have crap budget, lower quality acting, writing, etc.

I mean, there is no case to compare the low quality of the dialogue and acting of Kiss of the Dragon with the writing and Dialogue of The Matrix. While I wouldn't tout the Matrix as the end all be all of writing and dialog, it's worst moments are still consistently better than the best moments of the vast majority of Jet Li movies. Not meaning to slam Jet, he's a very talented man, but emoting and selecting scripts are not the areas he's talented.

That's why it's so big. It's the magic combo. Kung fu can't really carry a movie on its own, and special effects can't on their own anymore really. Lord knows Keanu Reeves and Kate Moss can't. But that's the beauty of the corporate model: it doesn't raise the heights that the filmmaker can achieve, but it can bring the lowest elements up to a common standard.

IMO, it is a good example of how to use modern technology in film. It had the Spiderman sort of CGI, the stuff from the original matrix, the hong kong style work, artificial locations mixed with actual locations and sets, and leather a stylized approach that is immediately recognizable. It's not Citizen Caine, and it doesn't advance special effects like the first one, but the key effect of the first one is, IMO, the most overrated effect ever, and not at all the reason the first movie did well.

You'd think people would want big budget kung fu flix.

[MasterKiller]

I think you are missing something, though.

Movies like The Matrix and Star Wars are also so successful because they bring something to the audience which they don't get in their daily lives--a sense of the mystical.

Star Wars created a religion of followers in my generation, and in 30 years, you'll have just as many Matrix fans still following this series.

They both tapped into an audience that was feeling isolated and ostarcized by the local politcal, religious, and societal movements.

Granted, it's arm-chair metaphysics at best. But most people don't get a taste of anything metaphysical in their normal lives, and when a movie can bring that to them in a format they like, people go ape shlt over it.

[cho]

take Keanu out of it, then you'd have good acting.

IMO, no one in Hollywood has been able to emulate HK style action. I have yet to see action that's better than Hard Boiled.

As for kungfu choreography, the Wachowskis get it half right. They've got speed, but no intricacy. The moves are too telegraphed.

I intend to see it for the spfx and Bellucci.

[SevenStar]

The oracle's bodyguard had some talent - he should help neo and the others fight.

"you don't know a person until you fight them"

[Chang Style Novice]

KC is correct - for a big, goofy action movie with a decently interesting subtext, it really raised the bar. And frankly, I'm pretty anti-Matrix myself. Like a lot of people here, I'd seen Yuen Wo-Ping's stuff before, I'd read up a bit on zen and gnosticism before, I'd seen bullet-time used in Dr. Pepper commercials before. But for most people, everything except bullet-time sfx was new.

Look at X-men. Setting aside the built in cachet of all the comic book fans, it has pretty much the same formula.

Cool action (although not as cool as Yuen's)
Cool FX (in a pretty different style)
Reasonably interesting subtext (civil rights struggles and queer consciousness vs. The Matrix' questions of perception vs. reality)

And it was a big success.

But Ballistic Ecks vs. Sever had nothing going on under the surface, so it flopped.

[@PLUGO]

First, this thread is doomed cause we got one going on the Martial Media forum.

I predict a thred move/merge...

but don't worry The choice has already been made the question is understanding why...

[MasterKiller]

Look at X-men. Setting aside the built in cachet of all the comic book fans, it has pretty much the same formula.

X-Men doesn't have the same type of Cult following. Fans of the comics like it for it's connection to the comics. Other people like X-Men and Spidey movies because of the movie itself, not because of the theme or it's connection to them.

Do a search for Matrix on Google. You'll get thousands of metaphysical treatises. Same as Star Wars.

[Chang Style Novice]

Dude, have you tried a google search on "X-Men"!??!

X-Men has a massive cult following. If it doesn't have as many treatises on the net as Matrix, it's mostly because most of that stuff got worked out by fans in the pre-web

edit - a seach for X-men and queer just got me 5,170 hits. So much for no interest in the thematic content!

[MasterKiller]

I know it has a Cult following, but not for the same reasons. Comics aren't exactly known for their ability convey a mystical experience to the reader. They are Soap-Operas for boys.

I'm talking about a deep, fundamental spiritual chord that these series strike in an audience full of people disillusioned by the world they are forced to participate in.

In recent Austrailian census, the government had to warn people about putting JEDI as their religion. They didn't have to warn people about putting Mutant for their race. There is a difference.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by cho
take Keanu out of it, then you'd have good acting.

IMO, no one in Hollywood has been able to emulate HK style action. I have yet to see action that's better than Hard Boiled.

I intend to see it for the spfx and Bellucci.

It's not really emulating HK style, since it's done by a hong kong crew, not the Warchowski brothers. It IS Hong Kong style. It's just that real actors must be used, or the movie will blow in exactly the same way most HK action (or any action flicks, for that matter)flicks blow- way substandard acting. It doesn't matter how good the kung fu is, if people don't believe in the character, you've got a flop.


CSN, that X-Men relation is a good one. It's the magic combo, though I think Matrix did the combo better, while X-Men satisfied the old fans better.

I'm not taking the freeway until at least a week after seeing Matrix2. For the safety of the other drivers. I LOVED that chase scene, and I hate chase scenes.

[shaolin kungfu]

I think your all down playing the role orgasm cake had in it's popularity.

[Chang Style Novice]

"I know it has a Cult following, but not for the same reasons. Comics aren't exactly known for their ability convey a mystical experience to the reader. They are Soap-Operas for boys."

No, not quite for the same reasons. After all, they're digging into different themes.

As for the second part of that statement - don't make me come over there and hurt you! Comics have been inspiring people to think and act in particular ways as long as movies have and probably longer. For every Star Wars and Matrix you bring up, I have an X-Men, Spider Man and Batman I can bring to the table. And for every Un Chien Andalou and Schindler's List you have, I can haul out Ghost World and Maus.

But now I'm really digressing - suffice it to say that different media have different strengths and weaknesses. For the most part the strength of movies is enveloping the senses and the strength of comics is manipulating the perception of time.

Now, I gotta go for a bit.

Take it easy, y'all.

[KC Elbows]

Masterkiller has a good point, although I hadn't realized that the Matrix would have that sort of following.

Since star wars, jedi is a little piece of the collective junk philosophy. Whereas, at least in my experiece, X-Men issues are more a shared experience, in that I know if I mention the shi ar guard's part in the death of phoenix, Design Sifu will not only know what I'm talking about, but can supply a link to a site where bodacious redheads dress as Jean Grey and get all dominant on the discerning geek.

I don't know how that relates to the Matrix. I hope kids aren't putting really long needles in the backs of their heads or anything.

[shaolin kungfu]

I don't know how that relates to the Matrix. I hope kids aren't putting really long needles in the backs of their heads or anything.

Hopefully, a matrix geek somewhere will dream up a way to make orgasm cake.