The same tune in a different key?

[t_niehoff]

Does this sound familiar? If we just substituted a few words here and there . . . from rec.ma:


Cabales Serrada Eskrima has an algorithm, a formula, a sort of master key, that allows the Eskrimador to prevail under any foreseeable circumstance. Most systems of MA don't really have an underlying plan to deal with the encounter. Serrada's formula is organic and multiplies very quickly. Other ma's have no formula or theory in re encounters at all.

At best, they present to you a barrage of techniques, and you find a way to make them work for you. Aikido is a prime example. Very few aikidoka ever get to the same level of applicative proficiency as a Serrada eskrimador will get in 3-6 months.

One of the things that makes SCARS, LETHALO and the rest so popular is that they claim to have such a methodology, a master key such that once learned, the rest can be derived with ease. These methods have nothing on eskrima in general and particularly on Serrada. I only mention them because they touch on a similar idea vis a vis their marketing ploys but there is not one iota of substance behind them.

In Serrada, you will never find anything other than pure firmament.

In the case of Grappling, Serrada denies grappling efficacy period as it is a weapons based art. But along with this, the low stances and the extremely fast operating speed of the stick do not allow a
grappler regardless of proficiency an opportunity.

However, that's not to say a correctly trained Serrada eskrimador
cannot grapple. Rather, since this is a close range trapping art the
eskrimador already has the requisite entrances and exits programmed in the master key. That plus the cadena de mano equals grappling success. The rule is Serrada takes care of the past, manages the present and collapses the future.

Within the 12 strikes and 70+ counter system of Angel Cabales lies every conceivable attack and defense necessary to defend oneself and to be able to walk away with ease from any encounter. Within the 12/70 lies the master key. Due to the organic, exponential nature of the formula key it is very similar to bagua though it may look quite different prima facie. This is an external system however.

For those who have not learned Serrada or are looking for a more
efficient way to practice MA for street effective self defense I
suggest you look us up.

Mabuhay ang Cabales Serada Eskrima!

Phillip J. Inoy
Pangalawang Guro, CSE

[tparkerkfo]

Hi Terence,

Cabales Serrada Eskrima has an algorithm, a formula, a sort of master key, that allows the Eskrimador to prevail under any foreseeable circumstance.

I am not to worried about the forseeable circumstance, but the unforseeable. That one always seems to pose most of the problems.

Tom
________
Pornstars August

[yuanfen]

no kidding

[foolinthedeck]

i thought escrima was fighting with sticks?

[anerlich]

I thought escrima was fighting with sticks?

Escrima and other FMA are adaptable to impact weapons of various sizes, edged weapons, and empty hands. The knife work is exceptionally nasty. If I ever have to defend against a blade, I hope the guy is untrained in FMA.

I'd estimate that a good proportion of schools of every martial art under the sun use similar OTT advertising, WC included. A lot of fitness trainers do much the same. It sells vids. If you don't claim it's devastating and foolproof, people are going to wonder what's wrong with you.

[Chango]

Terrence,
I find this interesting! how did they arrive at a formula? Is it based only on these "12 strikes and 70+ counter system of Angel Cabales "? What does this have to do with WCK? I personally like to look for simularities amoung arts. especially when they have different cultural back grounds. I have a cousin who does Eskima I will have to ask him more about this. I find asking those who have first hand experiences seems to bring help in understanding. I haven't given him a call in a few years. this would be excuse to give him a call. I will let you know what I find out.

Chango (saat geng sau)

[t_niehoff]

Hi Chango,

Chango wrote:

I find this interesting! C

Why am I not surprised? I posted it as an example of pure marketing BS that tries to take advantage of a person's insecurity with claims of "superiority" and "formulas" (just as SCARS does, for example) -- as folks that have no real skills, little experience, and even less understanding seek confidence from those things. Serrada certainly is a fine method of escrima (I've studied it some years ago along with pekiti tersia), but is not the be-all-end-all as this guy claims (the overwhelming lack of proof -- it's practitioners aren't beating every other escrimador at the Dog Brother's Gathering of the Pack or any other "meeting", for instance -- should at the very least make us suspicious). Folks only seek "formulas" when they don't have confidence in themselves.

Terence

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Terence,


I also studied this art for a short time period but never heard them speaking like this. Just nice guys who loved Eskrima! Indeed it is marketing!

Have you ever watched Angel Cabales? The guy was great. I had some old video footage of him (at one point) and the way he moved and twirled the stick/knife was fantastic. Thanks for bringing back some memories!

Oh yeah! I agree! There is no be all end all! Unless of course a gun is considered MA but even that is not 100%!


Regards,

[Chango]

Hello Terence,
It seems you have a problem with a simple method of organizing information. Maybe someone needs to check the emotional baggage?! ROFLOL!

You say that your not suprized however I find that I'm suprized that a professional man such as yourself seems to take issue with some who is offering a product like Martial arts in this case Eskrima to have marketing when disussing this material. You also find that his use of tones of being better then average offensive. Marketing 101! Ok so let me see as a lawyer you represent yourself as the average lawyer (showing your obvious confidence) LOL! Yeah you would starve just like the "average" martial art teacher teaching "plain old " Eskrima in the phone book LOL!

Secondly I have seen the term formula or even acronyms used to organize vital peaces of information for some systems. These are not uncomon and very effective tools in self defense classes. I don't think one seeks these method of organizing information becuase they lack confidence. However on the other side of this if having these tools to organize information helps on to remeber or builds confidence in a student then by all means use them. But it is still imperative that the student gets real live experiences as often as possible. This is where real skill is developed.


Chango (saat geng sau)

[t_niehoff]

Hi Chango,

Chango wrote:

It seems you have a problem with a simple method of organizing information. Maybe someone needs to check the emotional baggage?! ROFLOL! C

I've no problem with organizing material; I've a problem with the means by which people try to *sell* it to others. TN

You say that your not suprized however I find that I'm suprized that a professional man such as yourself seems to take issue with some who is offering a product like Martial arts in this case Eskrima to have marketing when disussing this material. You also find that his use of tones of being better then average offensive. Marketing 101! Ok so let me see as a lawyer you represent yourself as the average lawyer (showing your obvious confidence) LOL! Yeah you would starve just like the "average" martial art teacher teaching "plain old " Eskrima in the phone book LOL! C

Chango, I don't know why you are trying to bring me personally into this issue, but fwiw I don't advertise and never have (I don't even have a yellow pages listing), and get referrals only from word of mouth. Nor do I promote myself; I don't need to -- my results speak for themselves. As far as teaching MAs for money, there are ways to make a living that don't require one to resort to being snake-oil salesman. And if they need to resort to that, then it makes me wonder about the quality of what they are selling (if you need to put a plastic toy in your cereal to sell it, then it must be no better than anyone else's cereal). TN

Secondly I have seen the term formula or even acronyms used to organize vital peaces of information for some systems. These are not uncomon and very effective tools in self defense classes. C

"Self-defense classes" are not martial arts; they are what TV dinners are to being a chef. TN

I don't think one seeks these method of organizing information becuase they lack confidence. However on the other side of this if having these tools to organize information helps on to remeber or builds confidence in a student then by all means use them.

A method as simple as western boxing (with only 5 punches) doesn't have a formula. Formulas, like painting by numbers, will as you point out, produce results; the only problem is the results it produces! TN

But it is still imperative that the student gets real live experiences as often as possible. This is where real skill is developed. C

I don't understand; I've yet to have an unreal, dead experience. TN

Terence

[pk3]

Terrence,

"Folks only seek 'formulas' when they don't have confidence in themselves."

I don't think that's self-evident. Could you provide your reasoning?

Pat

[canglong]

"However on the other side of this if having these tools to organize information helps on to remeber or builds confidence in a student then by all means use them. But it is still imperative that the student gets real live experiences as often as possible. This is where real skill is developed." Chango

Well said Sibak!


hi pat, been waiting awhile for an answer huh. Give Terence some time it takes him a while to get his thoughts organized

[t_niehoff]

Pat wrote:

Folks only seek 'formulas' when they don't have confidence in themselves." TN

I don't think that's self-evident. Could you provide your reasoning? P

It is an observation. Fighters (folks that actually fight and that train to fight) never talk about formulas -- they *know* that it always boils down to who is the better man (or woman), and they train to be the better man (hence the truism "it's not the art that makes the man but the man that makes the art"). Persons who don't fight but nevertheless want to think of themselves as "a martial artist" rely on things like formulas or special techniques or tricks -- things "outside" of themselves -- to give them confidence ("With this, I can be a splendid fighter"). They look outside of themselves because they lack confidence in what is inside.

Terence

[Chango]

Terence,
You say " real fighters" or "folks who train to fight" who are you talking about? Do you know UFC people or MMA people or old Gong sau fighters? I personally have participated in full contact events as well as a short boxing life as well. My cousion in fact is a pro boxer and my uncle is a trainer and his father was a trainer and had trained the great Davey Moore early in his boxing life. So I can say that I have been around and have been a fighter. Of course I understand the difference between sport and combat. I hate to admit it but I have had my share of that as well given my enviorment. I have to say my uncle's that trained boxxers (fighters in some since of the word) used formulas if you will to orgainze some of thier knowlege. Here's one for you " give'em the old one two." LOL!


Chango (saat geng sau)

[t_niehoff]

Hi Chango,

Chango wrote:

You say " real fighters" or "folks who train to fight" who are you talking about? C

Folks that fight. TN

Do you know UFC people or MMA people or old Gong sau fighters? C

Yes. TN

I have to say my uncle's that trained boxxers (fighters in some since of the word) used formulas if you will to orgainze some of thier knowlege. Here's one for you " give'em the old one two." C

That's not a formula (let me translate it for you: "throw a certain combination"). TN

Terence