Han Ch'ing Tang

[r.(shaolin)]

NorthernShaolin, buddhapalm or anyone.
Do you have info on the any of the following people:

Han Ch'ing Tang
Ho Ch'ang Hai
Sung Bai Yuan

Kind regards,
r.

[buddhapalm]

Dear R,
Sorry I have not heard of these 3 people.

Any clues about them ? Are they still alive ?

I will keep my eyes open.

Best Regards
Buddhapalm

[r.(shaolin)]

Buddhapalm
Han Ch'ing Tang was Lohan Shaolin master originally from the main land China but moved to
Taiwan. His younger 'brother' Ho Ch'ang Hai lived in Hangzhou. They were 'Shaolin uncles' to
Sung Bai Yuan. Sung Bai Yuan was the son of Sung Yi Shan, my teachers 'uncle'.
All of these teachers included the forms Xiao Hong Chang Quan and Da Hong Chang Quan
in their Lohan wushu. I'm interested in finding out who Han Ch'ing Tang's and Ho Ch'ang Hai's teacher was.

[Tainan Mantis]

Performed T'ai-tzu Longfist 2-man chin-na, Seven-star Jian and 2-man Jian in the 1950 Taiwan Guo Shu meet.
This info comes from the Taiwan MA Developmental Survey.
This book lists the genealogy of almost every master , famous or not. If you tell me these people's principle and secondary styles it would be easier to locate this info that you want.

[r.(shaolin)]

They all were Shaolin (Lohan Men)
experts.

Qi Xing Wen Jian (Seven star sword)
Tai-tzu longfist is a often use as an informal
alternate name for both
Da and Xiao Hong Chang Quan in Shaolin.
These forms are all famous Shaolin forms.

Do you have the name of the 2 man sword contact Han Ch'ing Tang
did and who was his partner?
Thank you very much for your efforts Tainan Mantis and any info. you can pass on.
kind regards,
r.
ee

[Tainan Mantis]

-2 man sword is SAN TSAI JIAN.Partner's name is Fan Dz Hsiao.
-2 man chin-na: Partner's name Tsang Jian Chiu
-On the Longfist form I have seen all 3 forms that you mentioned; Tai-Dzu, Hsaio and Da-Hong Chuen and they were all dif.In Taiwan I have only seen people who consider these as 3 forms.
I have checked my book and found no more info on Han. But his name keeps ringing bells. I will check to see if there are any books he has published.
At the same show FAN DZ HSIAO also did
-Baji Chuen
-Shaolin short stick(bien)

[Crimson Phoenix]

in case you're interested, San Cai Jian is described in YMAA's Northern Shaolin Sword book...actually this sequence is also a solo routine, but that has a development made in the way that if someone does the solo form at one point and the other one does it starting somewhere else it becomes a two-men matching set...pretty cool...
Just my two cents

[Tainan Mantis]

The other form in the book is also a 2 man. Have you seen anyone do it?
What other 2 man forms have you seen in France?

[r.(shaolin)]

Hello Tainan Mantis
Sung Yi Shan(taught in Hong in the 1920’s and early 30’s)
Jyan Yi Chin(taught in Shanghai 1910’s and 1920’s)
and I think HoCh’ang Hai’s as well, credit, by ‘tradition,’ Shaolin Xiao and Da Hong Quan
to Zhao Kuangyin of Luoyang. A highly talented martial artist, who rose to the position of commander of the palace guard and later named Military Governor of Songzhou in Henan province.
Eventually Zhao Kuangyin became a Emperor in the Northern Song Imperial succession.
Taizu was actually his posthumous temple name. These forms have had a long association with the Henan region and Shaolin Temple.
This is why some time people call these forms Taizu Longfist.
Do you have the proper pinyin for for the full name of Han Ch’ing Tang’s form ‘Tai-Dzu Longfist’?
as well do you have the traditional histories of his three forms “Tai-Dzu, Xsaio and Da-Hong Quan”?
I would be interested Han Ch’ing Tang’s account of these three forms.

Do you know if Fan Dz Hsiao and Tsang Jian Chiu were Han Ch’ing Tang’s brothers or were they
his students?
Do you have the proper name (pinyin) of the stort stick Fan Dz Hsiao did. and what was the length of the stick?

As to other Shaolin jian contact forms these are two others.
Shaung Jian Po Qin
and Feng Ming Shuang Jian

thank you again for all your help and information.
regards,
r.

[Ralek]

I think they were all trained under Grandmaster Pei Wieu Fong.

Pei Wieu Fong trained them in the mystical arts of kung fu. They learned to use mystical chi powers like iron body, chi blast attack, and tai chi breathing. Then one day the evil master of chi Poo Poo Foo attacked Shaolin Temple. The 3 students jumped up in the air and did super chi kick. But evil chi master Poo Poo Foo used his chi powers to read their minds and predict what they would do. Poo Poo Foo blasted them with a huge chi ball. Then Grandmaster Pei Wieu Fong came out and confronted the evil chi master. "You have offended my family and you have offended a shoalin temple" said Grandmaster Pei Wieu Fong. The evil master of chi pulled out his mystical chi sword and struck at the Grandmaster. Grandmaster caught the swords blades between his palms and chi blasted Poo Poo Foo.

Grandmaster Pei Wieu Fong is my hero and is recongnized as the Greatest Grandmaster of chi. His students all have very strong chi and chi powers.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Tainan, I haven't seen much two-man forms here, the only other one I saw was a two-man wudang form that was name "wudang sword against sword matching" or something like that...I wish to see some more, this is a very interesting topic!

[Tainan Mantis]

What is the name of the book and the author from which you got the Song history? It is very hard to find good history books that mention MA.
One of my students did a search on the Taiwan web and discovered that Adam Hsu studied with Han.
As for more precise names I have already written everything and detail I can find about the previously asked questions. The word Bien is used for short stick. Bien is literally translated as whip or rod.
Do you know those 2 person sword forms?
San Tsai 2 man is fairly well known in Taiwan. I have another 2 man short stick form called Tiger Tail.

Crimson,
Did you get to learn that 2 man sword form.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Tainan, not yet, but my sifu will teach me the one man version soon (he can see the drool on my face everytime he practices it!!)...apparently it would come from Jiang Rong Qiao (who my sifu is a direct student of) who got it from Li Jing Lin.

talking about Yang Jwing Ming, his master was Li Mao Ching, student of Han Ching Tang...I know that in YJM's school there are two-men forms like saber against spear that come from Nanjing central Kuoshu institute, so maybe they are from Han too???

[RAF]

Adam Hsu taught Tony Yang the miao dao along with the two man fight. According to Tony, that form and fight came from Han Ching Tang. Also san cia jian as we know it came from him.

However the kun wu sword (different from the one in Yang Jwing Ming's book) and fight along with the taiji jian and fight came Zhang Xiang Wu who served under Li Jing Lin and probably was taught it by him.

GM Liu's first disciple, K. Leung of Boston, married Han Ching Tang's daughter and I believe they still teach much of his material, especially the longfist and Yang's taijiquan.

[r.(shaolin)]

I think that Li Mao Ching's material is mixed with styles not coming from Han Ch'ing T'ang.
Yang's art as even further removed by the fact that his connection to Han Ch'ing T'ang is through
Li Mao Ching and his material is further mixed.

Hi Tainan Manitis
Yes 'Bien' is the 'stiff wipe which is a rod. There are forms of the single and double rod
as well as a contact form for this weapon in Lohan Men. Is this the weapon your two man form is for?

There is also a short stick - 'Bang' which is really a short staff longer than the bien but shorter than
the 'eye' brow staff. Do you know which Han Ch'ing T'ang performed at the Taiwan Guo Shu meet. ?
You asked if I knew these two straight sword contacts, yes I do.

Faf.
What does 'miao' mean?
Do you have the correct pinyin?
Do you have the name of the contact form?

You mention taiji jian
Was this the Shaolin jian of which there are two single forms - Taiji Wen Jian (shang and xia - upper and lower) or was this sword form from Tiaji Quan which is different and unrelated.

I have my doubts about how much of Han Ch'ing T'ang's material Adam Hsu knows.

regards
r.






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