Chen Chin Na

[wiz cool c]

How do chen stylist practice chin na? Do they do it in a two man routine, do they do it in randori like in judo,is it dune in push hands?

[chen zhen]

In push hands, in application training, and in two-man routines, like most other tai chi.
don't know what randori is.

[wiz cool c]

what are the names of the two man routines in chen tai chi?

[kungfu cowboy]

Howard and Gus.

[chen zhen]

I don't know the Chen style two-man routines, I studied Yang style, and I'm talking from that styles perspective

[Ron Panunto]

Chen Zhen,

Why would you answer an inquiry about Chen style Chin na if you are a Yang stylist?

There are no two person routines equivalent to the Yang San Shou routine in Chen style, however, Chen does have five different methods of push hands (tui shou) and most of the chin na is practiced in these drills. Chin na is also practiced in application drills.

Ron Panunto

[chen zhen]

I just assumed there where two-man routines equivelant of Yang style's in Chen.
sorry, if I was wrong.

[bob10]

They haven't had a chance to invent a new old two man set yet

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by bob10
They haven't had a chance to invent a new old two man set yet

And I guess their long form doesn't exist either.

[Kevin Wallbridge]

The Yang two person form that is known as the "88" was created in the late 1930's by Chen Weiming and Dong Yingjie. There is no Chen equivalent, as has been noted above.

[Laughing Cow]

Kevin.

While the 88 is fairly new, I guess it replaced or supplemented another existing form of 2-man practice.

There are so many different forms of Yang TCC out there and those tend to differ quiet a bit in training methods.

Problem is most people only know a small selection of what an actual style contains.

In Yang's case it is YCF variant in Chen it is CFK variant.

Example:
Not many people are aware that there is 196 Form in Chen TJQ besides the commonly taught Yi Lu & Er Lu forms. AFAIK those 3 forms are not the only unarmed forms either some of the supposedly "lost" forms are still taught to a select few.

[mr.wing]

LC


Really lost forms???

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by mr.wing
LC
Really lost forms???

According to source there were 5 forms taught in Chen Village in the old days (Chen Wang Ting "created" them), but since today only 2 forms appear to be taught most people think that the other 3 forms were lost.

The number of routines practiced within Small Frame system is not really clear. Ms. Chen Peiju said that before Taijiquan was created by Cheng Wangting, Chen clan practiced Long Fist Boxing in 108 Postures (Yi Bai Ling Ba Shi Chang Quan) that they brought from Shanxi. Chen Wangting created five routines of Taijiquan. Nowadays mainly First Set and Second Set are practiced. This is also "official" version that can be found in books on Small Frame (including recently published - one by Chen Liqing - famous Chen style Taijiquan expert living in Xi'an - and one by Fan Chunlei - Chen Liqing's grand-disciple from Hangzhou). However other sources - including articles in Chinese martial arts magazines - indicate that apart from Yi Lu and Er Lu other Taijiquan routines have been preserved within Small Frame system. I had a chance to talk to disciples of Mr. Chen Boxiang (Chen Kezhong's disciple) from Pingdingshan as well as Mr. Shi Lei (Chen Kedi's disciple) from Kaifeng and they all confirmed other routines are also in Xiao Jia's curriculum.

Both my Sifu and more advanced students also acknowledge that there are more forms than the Yi Lu & Er Lu practised in our Chen style.

I know of one practicioner that was recently taught the first sections of the 196 form.

All I am saying is tht many people say style X does not contain set method or similar when there is more to the systems than is being advertised or known by non-practicioners.

Cheers.

[mr.wing]

Well that is one way to charge more money.

Why would there be a need to have a 196 movement form?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by mr.wing
Well that is one way to charge more money.

I doubt that my Sifu will get rich of our current fees.

Why would there be a need to have a 196 movement form?

From what I heard the Chen development went as follows:
196 form --> Xiao Jia --> Lao Da Jia

As for need, maybe not a need but I guess you could gain a deeper understanding of the style and art.

Cheers.