Mr. Wing posted: "Why would there be a need for a 196 form". Why is there a need for any form? Chen Wang-Ting developed it for his own reasons. Other than that there is no "need" for it or any other form.

As for the 196 form that LC refers to it is more often referred to as the Chen 108 or Longfist Form. And LC is right in that this form and the other 4 originally devised by CWT are not extinct, they are simply not yet readilly available outside Chen Village.

One of my teachers, Mao Fu Rong new all of the 5 original forms, and my present teacher is now learning the Chen 108 from Chen Yang Fu. He tells me that YCF will have a VCD available on this form later this year.

The Yang 88 San Shou form did not replace an older 2-person form. There is no tradition of 2-person forms in taiji other than the short push hand and da lu patterns.

Ron Panunto