Keysi Fighting Method?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I really haven't seen enough KFM to form an opinion. From the little I have seen, it's a tight guard, lots of elbows and knees, but nothing really new, or different. What are your views on this? What distinguishes KFM from anything else?
Kinda like Krav Maga-looks pretty much like Kenpo or Kajukenbo.

I don't wanna get into a "keysi" thing, other than what relates to the video clip.
I think there are a fe threads about Keysi as it is.
Just wanted to discuss this "new" part of Keysi, the GnP of Keysi.

[bakxierboxer]

Kinda like Krav Maga-looks pretty much like Kenpo or Kajukenbo.

Not from what I've seen of them.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not from what I've seen of them.

Its more JKD related than kenpo/kajukenbo related.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.keysikfm.com/university/intro

Enjoy.

[MightyB]

It's the cousin of this: http://crazymonkeydefense.com/cmd/

[sanjuro_ronin]

Blasphemy !!!
LOL !

It's funny but years ago, when the first Batman came out I mentioned that and got the "blank look".
Funny how it's hard for some people not to see the "sameness" in things.
Those keysi guys do make good videos and have some fun training approaches.

[Frost]

Blasphemy !!!
LOL !

It's funny but years ago, when the first Batman came out I mentioned that and got the "blank look".
Funny how it's hard for some people not to see the "sameness" in things.
Those keysi guys do make good videos and have some fun training approaches.

maybe i cant see the sameness

ok so both use hands on head, but CM also uses foot movement, slips, uses deflections and punches out of that structure and spars out of it,

Keysi guys dont seem to do any of that

[MightyB]

Here's one of the Keysi instructional videos: http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/151/

[Frost]

cheers seen that before and again its nothing like the CM i was taught, other than having the hands on the head its really different

[MightyB]

Of the two, I'd say CM is better for the MMA fighter and seems to have more depth.

Keysi seems to be for when you need to just shell up and go Bat-$h!t-Crazy on someone.

---

But you'd have to admit that the hands on the head thing does make them look similar to the casual observer.

[Frost]

Oh I agree they on the surface they look similar, just as the peek a bo style of boxing looks like CM when its done with boxing gloves, but I think the CM structure is much more advanced and practical in a fighting environment and an MMA environment, it starts out as a simple shield (but in a different way to the kesyi guys, the hands move independently of each other and you always look at the opponent) it then moves to an offensive stage when modified slips, bobs and footwork are used at the same time as the hands move, you also learn to strike out of the structure and back into the structure, where as when the kesyi guys seem to punch they drop there hands to a normal stance and go from there. CM structure because its taught in a live environment (had to get that in there, go straight blast gym!) doesn’t go in for the impractical stuff like using the structure to block knees elbowing the legs etc and blends it with a more orthodox striking and clinching game. I happen to think CM structure is very good for self defence and for MMA where a lesser striker want to close the distance and get the clinch, or as a recover method when under attack as long as you remember to strike back…it is not good for using purely defensively (Like tito did with chuck!)

[MightyB]

so I tried to watch all 49 minutes of the Keysi video...

Frost is definitely correct in saying that CM has wayyy more depth. Keysi does have it's strengths that a TCMA person could learn from- those being using a simplified blocking structure and practice freestyle against 1 or 2 people. There's something appealing about having two people slam you into a wall and beating the crap out of you with focus mitts. There's a lot that I don't like about keysi after watching the vid... the main thing being that weird bobbing dance that they do. Seriously, after about 30 minutes of the video, I felt like I was watching the back up dancers to a euro techno band - especially when they practiced their balance drill. It was just too much for me to take- so I turned it off.

CM is better. Better methodology, better instruction of ringmanship, just plain better at everything- plus, you don't feel like you're dancing at a moby rave when you practice it and that's important to me.

[sanjuro_ronin]

A few things,
Yes, CM is far more detailed than the KFM, but I think that is on purpose.
KFM has some of that "keep this stuff inside" mentality carried over from their JKD and Kali background whereas Rodney is very open in his videos.
CM doesn't really deal with multiples or kicks or the "mma" aspect as much and is more geared towards dirty boxing and clinch fighting, but then again, that is what it is designed for.
KFM SEEMS to try to address those things more and in a more practical sense but to be honest, I am not sold on HOW they do that (outside of the contact training drills which CM has also).
I've seen the KFM clips that deal with ground work and clinch fighting too and, well...I am of two minds about them:
1) They probably work from the POV of that non-stop striking barrage which makes it difficult for someone to close in, clinch and takedown.
Though I am not sure how practical it is since I have never tried it.
2)I can see it presenting a problem for someone that has never seen it and get exposed to it and are surprised by it.

I have Rodney's CM and dirty boxing videos and DON'T have the KFM ones so I am going on what I have seen of King's detailed stuff VS what we see of the KFM "marketing" stuff, so...

[Frost]

The big thing for me is that as you say Rodney (and the rest of the SBG guys, I learned it from Karl tanswell) are open and honest about how to train to and what it is for, its not a be all end all system, it’s a very good system for getting beginners used to sparring and develops a very good defensive system if you have limited time to train. And I agree with Rodney that boxing is very attribute based and hard to learn if all you have is a couple of days a week to train, but you can add it in to the CM structure as you get better.

For me the KFM is not proven, ie I know guys that have used CM in MMA fights I don’t know anyone who has fought with the KFM and some of their training methods are just plain goofy

I have seen how Rodney deals with kicks and the MMA aspect, he and karl both use sprawls to defend double leg attacks, (which is why in the CM structure you lower your stance more and stand more square on) and for upper body clinches they use the CM structure to brace against the opponent and create space and deny the underhook. Body kicks he defends the same way as punches to the body: lowering level and taking it on the arms, leg kicks he simply steps in on and right crosses people

For me the CM structure is a great way to get close to a better striker to get the clinch/takedown and a very good defensive structure from which to develop a more conventional striking game.

[Kevin73]

I tried to watch the video (need more time), but I did watch the intro and the first part of it talking about "the thinking man".

After getting past the boy band photoshoot at the beginning of the video, what I noticed was how open the their position left you.

When blocking a hook type punch, they show brining both hands up to the head and turning into it slightly. This leaves you wide open for a hook punch to the ribs on the opposite side, which even in an untrained fighter is going to happen. I don't think you would have enough time to mount a good defense to take care of it.