Ma Huang/Ephedra Banned

[Former castleva]

Claims about milk´s unwanted effects (sidenote;at least here around,milk used to be promoted as a great health drink)
are not a few,ranging from completely irrational (milk harms bones ) to something like this.
As far as I know,none of these effects have been proven for real.
When it comes to proven,heresay to the direction of "this is not heresay,I heard them say so" does not qualify.

Reasons to despise milk may be cultural,for dietary reasons or shall I say,evolutionary geographical causes (disability to digest lactose)

" "It's herbal, there's no side effects." "
No side-effects may often be equal to no effects at all.A potential drug can/will cause side-effects,but this is normal for a drug strong enough to actually work.

[Shaolin-Do]

In my younger days I used to eat plenty of ephedra... Never caused a heart attack. Wouldnt touch the sh!t now tho.

[SaMantis]

Some of the backlash against milk is pretty irrational. I still put milk in cereal & coffee, though not as much & I don't drink whole glasses of it anymore. As I get older my tolerance for it seems less (I gets the gas ).

I don't think milk itself is the problem, the processing of it is -- from overdosing the cows on hormones & antibiotics to pasteurizing & ****genizing the product so much that few of its original nutrients survive to reach your body. You get the additives - vitamin D etc. but that may be about it. (Well, the milkfat too.)

[Merryprankster]

Meth is NOT made from Ephedra, although I suppose you COULD make it from ephedra.

Depending on the synthesis used, Meth is either made from phenyl 2 propanone and methyl amine or, more usually these days, reduction of pseudo-ephedrine or ephedrine via hydroiodic acid. I should point out that condensation of P2P and methylamine yields d,l meth so you have to take twice as much for the same effect as one of the isomers is not really very biologically active.

Most times, it's made from p-fed. It's more readily available. It doesn't matter which one you start with, you get the same isomer of meth out as reduction of the alcohol group to a simple H-C bond removes the chiral center.

You would have to run an alkoloid extraction on ephedra and probably run a vacuum powered fractional distillation to get the p-fed and ephedrine out of the ephedra. Why bother?

[Royal Dragon]

You know way to much about this stuff

[Ford Prefect]

The government is here to save the day! Thank you, Uncle Sam, for protecting me from hurting myself. If you weren't around, I'd probably be shooting heroin everyday and having ephedra-caused heart attacks. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

//sarcasm off

[shaolin kungfu]

Are you a chemist, MP, or a drug dealer/maker?

[Royal Dragon]

MP=Modern Grappeler. This sugjests to me he's in Law enforcement. Those guys like anything that helps them ground and cuff thier perps. and it would explain why he knows so much. Of course, so would being a drug manufacturer.

[SevenStar]

It was bound to happen. If people would follow directions, we wouldn't have this problem, IMO. you have to be responsible when dealing with something like ephedra.

[Royal Dragon]

It was bound to happen. If people would follow directions, we wouldn't have this problem, IMO. you have to be responsible when dealing with something like ephedra.

Reply]
The problem is the directions on the bottles are deadly. Take a look at "Hydroxi Cut". You've got a product that mixes Caffine* and Ephedra* (A deadly combination from the start) that ON THE BOTTLE recomends very dangerous doseges.

It recommends as much as 4 capsuels 3X daily. Each 4 Capsel contains 334 mg of Mahuang, and 910mg of Guranna, or 1032mg and 2730mg, (respectively), DAILY for extended periods of time 4 weeks and beyond according to the bottle.

When "I" took this stuff, I did HALF of that one time, and thought I my heart was going to burst, had near blackout spells all day, dizzyness, buzzing in my ears shakeyness and over all weakness, and severe insomnia that night (I took it in the morning). I don't see how someone with any sort of heart condition could survive it at the dose "I" took, let alone double that, THREE TIMES in one day that the bottle recomends.

If you comapare, I think if you make a Tea out of 3500MG's of raw herb, by the time you finnish boiling it all down and such, you have less than 350mg's of actuall ephedrine, and there is other stuff mixed in to that, so it's actually less. This is ALL you need to boost athletic performance, and you can barley feel it at that (like a good shot of Ginseng at best). You have to watch your performance numbers to read the effect. I got these numbers out of my Herbal Materia Medica.

Hydroxi cut recomends more than 3 times what the medical journal recomends, AND it has a Caffine substance added to greatly enhance the action of the Mahuang so in effect, you are getting close to something in the area of 10 times the recomended dosage or effect (my guess). Then they wonder why people are dying from this stuff. The problem, is it does not work as a weight loss supplement in lower doses, only gives an athletic boost.









*Guranna = Caffine
*Mahuang= Ephedra

[Ford Prefect]

I'll have to stock up on Yohimbe before they figure out that it has ephedra-like metabolism-boosting properties. It also pumps up your ummm... labido, which can be a distracting effect.

[Merryprankster]

Way less than 350mg (which is a SUBSTANTIAL dose). Standardized Ephedra weighs in at about 4% Ephedrine.

[GreyMystik]

yeah it's apparently the "fast track" to meth now (ephedrine). several companies have actually started making their OTC cold products more difficult to break down into their respective components supposedly because of it. folks would go to the store to buy chunks of blister packs to use in their labs or whatnot.

by the way, here's an interesting (but LONG) article about meth for anyone curious. i'm not sure i agree with it all but the author brings up some interesting points...

http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id1950/pg1/

[Shaolin-Do]

lol
mp does know too much about this. Methinks he is a corrupt cop with a drug lab.

They still sell ephedra products like mad down here. I know a few stupid f*cks that drink on it... *sigh*....

[Royal Dragon]

4%?? I did my math based on 10 %, so theres is less than even I originally thought. At 4%, my initial figure of 350mg's becomes a paltry 140mg's. This means that "Hydroxi Cut" recomends over SEVEN TIMES the doesage recomended in the Materia Medica. AND, they include an agent (Guranna/Caffine) that greatly enhances the effect and dangers as well. Because of that, I bet we could functionally have a dose that is twice the 7+.........or in other words, possibly 14 times what's recomended in the Materia Medica.

That is just criminal in my opinion. No wonder it was such a problem.