Ma Huang/Ephedra Banned

[Royal Dragon]

You know, I wouldn't waste my time with it. Caffine mixed with Mahuang is Vascio constrictive. This means the blood gets choked off to a certian point and has difficulty supplying your muscles with nutrients, thus lowering physical performance. I know you "Feel" stronger, but over time it does weaken you. This is where the heart faliure comes from. as the doesage increases, the ability for th blood to cirulate gets lower and lower due to the veins constricting. but at the same time, the heart is juiced up form the nervious system stimulus. This makes the job of pumping blood very difficult. At extreame doses like those found in hydroxi cut and other stacked products, it becomes deadly, especially to those with an unknown heart problem. Seriously, the exttra bit of rip you get from it is not worth it. Do another 40 minutes of cardio instead. it's the same thing, and you get more endurance from it. Mahuang is NOT for weight loss. That is a *******ised use for it.

A really low dose of only Mahuang, so it barely perks you up, is what you want for athletic performance. At this level, you get a slight adrenal boost, and vascodialation (Improved circulation) in the lungs which improves breathing capacity, and thereby a boost endurance. You want it form a fully natural source so you get the whole herb, not just whatever constituant the company "Feels" is the active ingredient.

Trust me, people are dieing form the herbal stack thing. It shold be banned. The traditional use however has never harmed anyone, and should be allowed.

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but 20MG of pure ephedrine is like 1500mg of raw herbs. Infact, maybe more. 1000mg of raw herb is 40 mg of active ingredients, of which ephedrine is only one of about a dozen different constituants. I bet it's less that 5 mg's of the total dose.

[Former castleva]

Was not mahuang originally supposed to treat asthma and as one source says,"respiratory infections"?
I doubt it does but just a thought of mine.

[Royal Dragon]

Former,
Yes and it's very good at that. I have an herbal cough formula that is VERY effective. Mahuang, Cherry Bark and Slippery Elm plus a few things.

Seriously, it wouldn't be in over the counter decongestiants, asthma medications, and caough medcines if it didn't work.

It also wouldn't be in the process of being banned if the mega dose Herbal Stacks weren't killing people.

It just sux that those of us who follow the time tested traditional uses of it are going to get screwed because of some greedy weight loss companys, that KNOW this stuff is dangerous.

[Black Jack]

You really will not get screwed if you just grow your own herbs. Its not like you will be selling them.

[ewallace]

I use it as a fat burner. I don't need the energy boost. Numerous studies have shown it to be effective in loosing fat without loosing muscle, which is the opposite of what will happen with large amounts of aerobic exercise. It has been shown to have very little side effects when used at the proper dosage.

As to hydroxycut and other herbal equivelants, I would stay away from those as well. I like to know exactly what I'm taking.

In almost every fatal case it was abused, or the person using it had health issues.

[Royal Dragon]

Black Jack,
The push is to make possession illegal. In the mean time, I found a supplier that can handle it. I sugjest everyone buy the raw herb in bulk now wile it's still legal in your state. I found a supplier carries it in bulk, dried raw herb for about $7.00 a pound. I just cleaned them out of thier last 5 pounds, though, and they don't plan on carryiing it anymore. As for me, I'm planning on buying a good 50 pounds of it over the next few weeks (if I can find suppliers). That way I'm stocked up for when the rest of the US bans it too.

I figure that ought'a to last me a good 10 or 20 years.

[Royal Dragon]

ewallace,
I never heard areobics causes you to lose muscle, thats a new one on me. Starvation dieting yes, but not any form of exercises. I think that's an old wives tale.

Question, where are you getting pure Ephedrine from anyway? You can't buy the bulk herb without getting all the other constituants that are in the herb too. I have never heard of a pure stand alone product that is just the isolated Ephedrine before. It's usually a Mahuang exctract that contains the ephedrine, or it's one of those stacks.

Again, I say your studies are faulty concerning the safety of what your doing. I know it burns fat succsessfully, but so does an hour of sparring. Mahuang Tea is just for aiding endurance. Fat loss requires too much of a dose to be safe. If anything, if your dosing the full herb traditionally, weight loss will be a natural by product of the extra ability to train longer.

[ewallace]

It's not herbal. The only ingredients are ephedrine and guafenesin. You can buy it at almost any gas station here.

334 mg of Ma Huang is roughly equivalent to 20 mg of ephedrine.

Many many studies have been performed (by recognized medical institutions) on this topic over the years, and pretty much all of them had the same result. It's the people that abuse it or ignore medical problems that end up dead.

[ewallace]

If you do excessive amounts of cardio it can lead to muscle loss.

[Royal Dragon]

Then why does it feel like my heart is about to burst from useing that stuff? Could it be that Caffine greatly enhances the effect maybe?

I mean really, if stacks are so safe, why does it have such a violent effect on so many people? It's not like I even used as much as the bottle said I should, I only used about half. I'm sure that the full dose would have hospitilised me for sure. The reaction was that violent. How come it does not feel like a nice warm cup of Mahuang tea?

[Royal Dragon]

Oh, yes I do agree the problem is abuse, like having products where the instructions direct un whitting consumers to take potentially deadly amounts of toxic herb combinations.

Now all of us that use the herb in the traditional mannor are going to get screwed.

[ewallace]

Could it be that Caffine greatly enhances the effect maybe?

Absolutely. If you get the jitters from one cup of coffee, you will probably experience the same thing for the first couple doses.


Look, it's not for everyone. I took Ripped Fuel back around 1993 before all the hype. I was even under 18 then too, and I had absolutely no problems with it. I have no problems with it now, and today is the first day I have taken it.

Oh, yes I do agree the problem is abuse, like having products where the instructions direct un whitting consumers to take potentially deadly amounts of toxic herb combinations.

Do some more research on this topic before you get sarcastic and bent outta shape.

Trust me, people are dieing form the herbal stack thing. It shold be banned. The traditional use however has never harmed anyone, and should be allowed.

So because you had a bad experience it should be banned? Because you reacted differently from me I shouldn't be allowed to use it but you should?

Now all of us that use the herb in the traditional mannor are going to get screwed.

See above comment.

It has only been very, very rare occasions where someone took the prescribed dose and had complications. Almost everytime they had a health issue that had they been properly evaluated they would have been advised against taking it in the first place.

[Royal Dragon]

quote:
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Oh, yes I do agree the problem is abuse, like having products where the instructions direct un whitting consumers to take potentially deadly amounts of toxic herb combinations.
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Do some more research on this topic before you get sarcastic and bent outta shape.

Reply]
I have done plenty of research. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being factual.


quote:
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Trust me, people are dieing form the herbal stack thing. It shold be banned. The traditional use however has never harmed anyone, and should be allowed.
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So because you had a bad experience it should be banned? Because you reacted differently from me I shouldn't be allowed to use it but you should?\

Reply]
No, a significant enough number of people have deadly reactions. This stuff is not labled as a poison that could quite possibly lead to death, it's billed as the next best thing to God concerning loosing weight. People wiht heart problems are taking this to help get healthy by lossing weight, and deing form it. It's not just me, there are over 40 dead already.


quote:
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Now all of us that use the herb in the traditional mannor are going to get screwed.
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See above comment.

It has only been very, very rare occasions where someone took the prescribed dose and had complications. Almost everytime they had a health issue that had they been properly evaluated they would have been advised against taking it in the first place.

Reply]
This is an over the counter heavily ADVERTISED as safe product. Why would anyone even think they needed a "Health" evaluation to take it? By your logic, it should only be avaliable by prescription. Then I and countless others who use it traditionally by itself, not in a dangerous mix like a stack, get screwed.

http://www.kbmoll.com/invest/iv_meta.htm





Update: Illinois bans ephedra sales

On Monday May 12, 2003, Kenneth B. Moll & Associates, Ltd. filed the first nationwide class action complaint on behalf of all ephedra users. Click here to view the complaint.

Some of the named defendants are Metabolife International Inc., Cytodyne Technologies, MuscleTech, NVE Pharmaceuticals, Twin Laboratories and EAS. The following are some of the popular ephedra dietary products sought to be banned: Metabolife, Hydroxycut, Herbalife, Herbalite, Stackers, Ripped Fuel, Extreme Ripped Force, Diet Fuel, GH Fuel, Herba Fuel, Metabolife, MetaboLift, ThermiCare, ETA Stack, Xenadrine RFA-1, Ultimate Orange, Thermogenic Power, and BetaLean.

Several organizations have already banned ephedra such as the NCAA, the Olympic Committee and the NFL. On January 9, 2002, Canada banned all sales of ephedra products. On March 5, 2003, Suffolk County in New York, was the first County to ban ephedra. Many other Municipalities and States around the country are considering legislation to ban ephedra containing products. On May 2, 2003, General Nutrition Centers (GNC), the nation’s largest retailer of nutritional supplements, announced that it will discontinue the sale of all ephedra containing products by the end of June. The FDA is currently taking action to require manufacturers to place warning labels on the front of all products containing ephedra about the risks of heart attack, seizure, stroke and death.

In November, 2002, a $4.1 million jury verdict was obtained against Metabolife International. The company was ordered to pay this amount to four people who claimed they suffered from strokes or heart problems because they took the company's ephedra diet pills.

On May 25, 2003 Governor Rod Blagojevich passed legislation making Illinois the first state to ban the sale of ephedra products. The drive for the Illinois legislation began when 16-year old Sean Riggins of Lincoln, Illinois, died of a heart attack after ingesting an ephedra product to help him make the football team.

According to the FDA, Metabolife is currently under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice. This criminal investigation began back in August, 2002.

Originating from the Ephedra plant, ephedrine has been advertised as a time-tested Chinese herb ("ma huang") that will relieve asthma and allergy symptoms, as well as enhance athletic performance and weight loss.

Ephedrine is the active ingredient found in popular diet pills, over-the-counter decongestants, allergy medications, herbal energy boosters and herbal asthma remedies.

As an over the counter herbal supplement, ephedrine is not regulated by the FDA. Recently, however, the FDA has proposed to establish a finding that a dietary supplement is adulterated if it contains 8 milligrams or more of ephedrine alkaloids per serving within a six hour period or a daily total intake of 24 mg or more of ephedrine alkaloids. The proposition also requires the labels of such supplements to state that the product is not to be used for more than seven days.

The FDA proposed the above action after receiving over 800 adverse events associated with the use of the dietary supplements that contain ephedrine alkaloids and reviewing scientific literature and other data concerning ephedrine alkaloids. The FDA has received approximately 14,775 comments in response to its ephedrine alkaloid proposal.

In response to growing concern about the safety of ephedra alkaloids in dietary supplements, the FDA requested an independent review of reports of adverse events related to the use of ephedrine so it could assess causation and determine the level of risk these products pose to consumers.

Researchers at the University of San Francisco and California Poison Control System conducted an in-depth review of and applied a standardized rating system for assessing causation to 140 reports of adverse events involving dietary supplements containing ephedra alkaloids that were submitted to the FDA between June 01, 1997 and March 31, 1999.

Of the adverse events reported, 47% involved cardiovascular symptoms, while 18% involved the central nervous system. Hypertension was the single most frequent adverse reaction, followed by tachycardia, stroke and seizures. Ten of the recorded cases resulted in death and 13 events produced permanent disability. In total, the FDA has reported over 40 deaths and over 800 serious side effects linked to Ephedrine.

Attorney Kenneth Moll said, the primary objectives of this class action is to: (1) obtain a Court Order forcing Defendants to cease and desist from the manufacture and sale of ephedra dietary products and issue a recall; (2) inform the public that consumers taking ephedra dietary products are at an increased risk of sudden cardiac complications, strokes, and seizures; (3) provide compensation to all victims for death and personal injuries; (4) provide a fund for all users of ephedra dietary products for medical monitoring; and (5) reimburse monies paid for the ephedra dietary products.


Click here to view the Federal Complaint against the makers of Ephedra containing products.

Contact Us

If you or a family member may have suffered from injuries associated with ephedrine and would like more information concerning your legal rights, please contact us.



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[ewallace]

Straight from the label of "The Patented ECA Stack":
Before beginning any program of weight loss, consult your health care practitioner. These statements have not been evaluted by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

Daily value not established. Jitters, anxiety, dry mouth or insomnia may occur during the first week of use. Reducing number of capsules per day during the first week should eliminate these mild effects.

People wiht heart problems are taking this to help get healthy by lossing weight, and deing form it.

Who's fault is that? Should diabetics go buck-wild at dunkin donuts?

My wife can eat one cherry and swell up like a balloon. She swears if she eats a couple more she will probably die from not being able to breath. Should we outlaw cherries too?

I don't disagree that it can be dangerous.

I've seen those stats in that article you posted. There is however a lack of more detailed information on the deceased or affected person(s) overall condition.