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Thread: Ma Huang/Ephedra Banned

  1. #76
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    In the Chinese Materia Medica, it specifically states that Caffine is contradictive to Mahaung. The two are NOT suposed to be used together. Also, your "Label" does not state that the use of these two "Products" in conjunction is a potentially deadly combination.

    If it continued on to read "More than 800 people have had strokes, heart failure, palpatations, and 40 are know to have died from useing this product", i'd say you have a point. But it does not say that.

    Either way, the traditional use of the Herb Mahuang is not a danger to anyone, even those WITH heart problems. It's benificial as a decongestant, and in use as a pre-practice tonic to improve breathing capacity. There are no deaths, strokes, or other injuries associated with it's traditional use. In fact, I don't think there is any problem with it's use in decongestants, asthma and allery medicines either. However, there are 40 deaths, and 800 cases of stroke and other health issues ranging from major to minor from the use of the megga dose Mahuang/Caffine "Stack" with the intent to lose weight. There is a very real and specific problem with these products. If you don't support a ban on them, then surely you must support a lable in big red, bold letters stateing the product has been asociated with 40 deaths, and 800 traumatic medicall conditions such as strokes.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  2. #77
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    Royal,

    What I meant was that if you grow your own in small doses for personal use, kinda like how some people do small pot plants, nobody is really gonna be the wiser if you don't flaunt it.

    The reason being that I don't believe their will be undercover Mahuang sting operations in that regard. Better yet go plant it in a public spot, buried away in the woods, and go pick it when need be, just make sure it is in a spot that does not get any pesticide.

    Personally I don't know much about the herbs harvesting, though I do know about the herb itself.
    Regards

  3. #78
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    Yeah, I'd like to do that, but I don't know what kind of enviroment it needs, AND I don't know where to get the seeds. I do know that I could import it to Terri's sisters house, and just have her pick it up there. I don't see Nebraska taking this issue seriously enough to bann it. So long as possession is not illegal here, I'll be OK.

    Really though, I'd like to see the retail sale of the "Stack" banned. That way the herb mahuang itself is legal, and can stll be used in over the counter medicines, and traditional martial training teas. Ewallace could then buy the ingredients seperatey, and make it himself. by doing that, only peopel with special knowledge could make it, and the genral public wouldn't be in any risk.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

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  4. #79
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    RD, don't get me wrong, I see where your coming from. And I do make my own stack with separate ingredients. I do not discount that it can be a serious issue, but I also don't blindly accept the numbers related to strokes...etc, without seeing other information on the peoples overall health condition before taking it. Nor do I believe it should be banned to protect people from their own stupidity (in most cases).

    I'm also not a big believer in chinese medicine, so when I see studies coming from places such as harvard medical that have consistantly shown that it has little side effects, I tend to be a little more believing of it.

  5. Thumbs up Ephedr./Mahuang

    Iīm not going to comment on what Royal considers traditional use,however;
    "FDA is warning consumers not to purchase or consume ephedrine-containing dietary supplements with labels that often portray the products as apparent alternatives to illegal street drugs such as "ecstasy." Possible adverse effects of ephedrine range from clinically significant effects such as heart attack, stroke, seizures, psychosis, and death, to clinically less significant effects that may indicate the potential for more serious effects (for example, dizziness, headache, gastrointestinal distress, irregular heartbeat, and heart palpitations). Ingredient panels on these products may list ma huang, Chinese ephedra, ma huang extract, ephedra, Ephedra sinica, ephedra extract, ephedra herb powder, or epitonin, all of which indicate a source of ephedrine."

    "Ephedrine, also known as ephedra or ma huang, has sickened or killed 800 users. "

    "Ephedrine alkaloids are amphetamine-like compounds used in OTC and prescription drugs with potentially lethal stimulant effects on the central nervous system and heart. "

    "effects, include hypertension (elevated blood pressure), palpitations (rapid heart rate), neurophathy (nerve damage), myopathy (muscle injury), psychosis, stroke, memory loss, heart rate irregularities, insomnia, nervousness, tremors, seizures, heart attacks, and death."

    The fact that this herbal product(s) managed to sneak trough legal regulation of FDA and itīs ability to have gone unnoticed without serious warnings whatsoever is not helping.
    Banning it is definitely worth considering by now.

    Iīve included some links,including medical studies.
    Do note that in order for the drug to be harmful,one does not necessarily need to be ill in health (in terms of neurological or cardiological conditions etc.)

    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/livin...dra001106.html

    http://www.ephedrine-ephedra.com/
    The sunsetīs setting down.Lay me on the forest floor.

    ______________________________
    I do not necessarily stand behind all of the statements I have made in the past, in this forum. Some of the statements may have appeared to support a biased view of reality, and may have been offensive. If you are a moral person and were hurt by comments that I made, you can PM me about it and I will apologize if I find your cause reasonable.
    -FC, summer of 2006-

  6. #81
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    Whooo Hoooooo!!!!!!!! UpS just delivered me Five Pounds of Mahuang!!!! Based on an exaghstive search, it's probably the last in the country. I only found one suppplier, and I cleaned them out.

    That ought to last me for a few years. I am planning to use it very sparringly. Once or twice a week tops. If I'm not planning the hardest of workouts, I'm saving it for my medicinal formula I call "Cure for Death Cough". It's like the only thing that gets rid of those coughs that last for a month. My daughter or I get one of those every winter. Nothing else seems to help. I eventually gave up on modern western medicine. The remadies from them take a month to work, same as letting it ride out on it's own. the "Cure for Death Cough" clears it up in 1-3 days tops. I figure if this is the last I will ever be able to get, I'd better be carfule how I use it. The medicinal formula out ranks a training formula.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  7. #82
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    Former,
    I consider boiling a teaspoon of it in water, and drinking the tea before training, OR soaking about an ounce of it in ricewine for 3 months and taking a single shot before training to be the traditional use.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  8. #83
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    I don't know what it is with the cravings today, but now I have a craving for some sake. Thanks alot RD.

  9. #84
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    hmmm, Sake with Mahuang soaked in it, and an apple...........sounds like a good breakfast!!
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  10. Thumbs up Thanks for advice.

    But how do ricewine and mahuang interact?
    The sunsetīs setting down.Lay me on the forest floor.

    ______________________________
    I do not necessarily stand behind all of the statements I have made in the past, in this forum. Some of the statements may have appeared to support a biased view of reality, and may have been offensive. If you are a moral person and were hurt by comments that I made, you can PM me about it and I will apologize if I find your cause reasonable.
    -FC, summer of 2006-

  11. #86
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    It's the same as boiling it, only you don't have the steam stinking up the house and your other half consequently bitc.hing about it.

    Actually, making a "Training wine" with Mahuang and other herbs is probably more common than the teas. You can easily make it by the gallon a head of time, and then just take a shot before you train real quick, instead of boiling and sitting there and drinking a hot cup of tea. It's faster, and more convinent. I have been to a good number of training sessions where a bottle was passed around to everyone right before the training started. It kicks in in about 20 minutes, or right about the time your done warming up and ready for the hard training.

    Some groups use "Crysathinum" tea after traing to better facillitate recovery instead.


    Common herbs used for training formulas are

    Ginseng (Chinese red, white, American)
    Mahuang
    Astragalis
    Ginger root

    Infact, I have another thread going right now about a formula I found in a hand written manuscript given to me by the son of a decesed Tai Tzu master.

    Virtually every traditional Chinese school has thier own "Secret" formulas for this. Usually it's a guarded secret known only to seniors, and rarely to the general students.

    In modern times, many have made thier formulas public. Below is a few links to Oriental Herbs.com and some GREAT Training formulas, both in teas, and herbal Liqueurs

    http://www.orientalherb.com/herbal_p...s_liqueur.html

    http://www.orientalherb.com/herbal_p...ea_health.html
    Last edited by Royal Dragon; 06-13-2003 at 02:43 PM.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  12. #87
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    He he he he he, I just noticed, they have a "Royal Dragon" Herbal Liqueur.





















    Actually, I knew about it. Terri buys me some for Christmas every year, GREAT stuff!!
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  13. #88
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    Hey guys

    If you want Ma Huang as a training supplement, shop for bodybuilding supplement maker Twinlabs....They make a capsule form of ginseng/ma huang combo for sale....The product is known as "Herbal Fuel", used by bodybuilders...I have tried it and find it super effective in enhancing endurance and intensity during my workouts...

  14. #89
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    Sorry, banned in my state. If it has the caffine mixed in, it's junk anyway. you are better off buying the bulk herb (Also banned for sale in my state now ) and making the traditional training wines, or a tea. Nothing beats that.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  15. #90
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    A dated report

    This came to my attention randomly. Although it's a year old, it'll sit well here.

    Wed May 27, 2015 5:40pm EDT Related: HEALTH
    FDA ban nearly wiped out deaths, poisonings from ephedra
    NEW YORK | BY GENE EMERY

    (Reuters Health) - A 13-year tally of deaths and poisonings from ephedra show a spectacular decline after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration banned the sale of weight loss products containing the herb in 2004.

    "The number of poisonings resulting in major effects or deaths has decreased by more than 98% since 2002. The 2004 FDA ban has proved to be a very effective means of limiting the availability of ephedra and therefore its potential toxicity in the United States," Illinois researchers report in the May 28 New England Journal of Medicine.

    It was the first dietary supplement to be banned.

    "I used to see patients with a lot of ephedra problems in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I haven't seen one literally in 10 years," coauthor Dr. Jerrold Leikin, director of toxicology at NorthShore University HealthSystem in Evanston told Reuters Health in a telephone interview.

    "It's the eradication -- you can almost use that word -- of this substance within a relative short period of time -- a few years," he said. "It was expected, but the extent is quite surprising. And remember, this was not a drug. This was an over-the-counter dietary supplement. There's been very few studies looking at the effect of an FDA ban on dietary supplements."

    Ephedra, also known as ma huang, was the chief ingredient in many weight-loss and energy-enhancement products in the U.S. The herb was known to produce modest short-term weight loss but it was killing people.

    It has been linked to heart attack, stroke, seizure, high blood pressure, and heart rhythm problems. It was held responsible for the death of Baltimore Orioles pitching prospect Steve Bechler in 2003. It was especially dangerous when used in conjunction with caffeine.

    The ban was implemented in April 2004, overturned by the industry in 2005 but ultimately upheld by the U.S. Court of Appeals in 2006. Prior to the ban, industry groups were saying the substance had been used by 12 million people.

    Using data from the National Poison Data System, the researchers found that ephedra poisonings peaked at 10,326 in 2002 and then began a significant decline to 180 by 2013.

    Major effects, defined as hospitalization usually requiring critical care, peaked the same year, at 108, one year after the system began collecting ephedra data. By 2008, such reports were down to three or fewer per year.

    The number of deaths peaked later -- at seven in 2004. There had been five, three and six the previous years. After the ban, there was one death in 2005 and 2007. There were none in 2006 and in the years after 2007.

    "What kind of surprised us was the near-completeness of the decrease in toxicity, how it went from 8,000 to 10,000 down to literally a few dozen calls to the poison center," Dr. Leikin said.

    He speculated that the initial declines seen just before the ban went into effect could have been the result of natural fluctuations in the number of poisonings and major effects.

    Dr. Stephen Barrett, a retired psychiatrist who has been following the dietary supplement industry for decades, said he was please to see evidence "that action by the FDA has reduced the harm caused by an herbal product."

    Unfortunately, said Dr. Barrett, who operates the Quackwatch.org, website, the FDA's "ability to act quickly and to ban other dangerous products has been severely crimped by the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act. This awful law classifies herbal products as dietary supplements and prevents the FDA from banning them without proof that they have caused deaths and/or serious injuries. That’s backwards."

    He said "the law should require that herbal products sold for alleged health purposes be proven safe and effective BEFORE marketing."

    SOURCE: bit.ly/1AmGkvY

    N Engl J Med 2015
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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