Is strength necessary for fighting?

[Becca]

How is that suposed to make me feel like an idiot?

[Becca]

Originally posted by Serpent

Planning any trips to Sydney any time soon?

Aiming to go back next summer, actually. Only had 3 days last time. Was stuck on one of those sucky tours the whole time. Never buy a "barin vacation package."

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Becca


Aiming to go back next summer, actually. Only had 3 days last time. Was stuck on one of those sucky tours the whole time. Never buy a "barin vacation package."

Let us know next time you are heading down this way.

[cho]

strength is very necessary.
but strength doesn't always mean bigger. take Bruce Lee: so much muscle packed into that little frame, like a jackhammer.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

In my experience, Oso is correct. It's not really strength that counts, it's weight. Strength isn't so hard to deal with. A lot of weight is.

as a little guy on the receiving end i'd have to disagree. i'd much rather fight a huge moron than a guy my size that knows how to hit.

i don't know much about grappling, but from my limited experience it's the same thing. i can out grapple huge morons easily without knowing anything.

[Oso]

GDA, 'huge' and 'moron' aren't necessarilly connected at the hip.

no one has said anything about the mental capacity of the opponent.

give me someone to fight with an IQ of less than 70 every time.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity


as a little guy on the receiving end i'd have to disagree. i'd much rather fight a huge moron than a guy my size that knows how to hit.

But now your talking about weight vs. training, not weight vs. strength. Just because you bench 300 doesn't mean you know how to throw a punch.

[red5angel]

I don't think it's about mass really, unless a good portion of that mass is muscle. I have a freind who is about 350lbs and I can man-handle him like a little girl. My most frequent workout partner is about 6'2" and about 240 of solid muscle and the guy kills me anytime he wants to. His skill is better but he hits me once and turns me about 180 degrees!
I'm not convinced it's about mass.

Just because you bench 300 doesn't mean you know how to throw a punch.

My contention here is that you may not have to. I am not saying by any means muscle is the end all to be all by the way.

[yenhoi]

timing, conditioning, expierence - trumps "strength."

Of course stronger people are stonger people.

Just because you bench 300 doesn't mean you know how to throw a punch.

Or move your feet, or bend suddenly and toss the guy. Sure, if your stronger then the other guy, then when it comes to strength.... then your stronger... but as far as fighting goes, high amounts of strength or other attributes dont at some point spill over and start filling out other attributes. If your better then you will win, and when you win, well then, thats that.

[red5angel]

yenhoi, I have to disagree a little here. I can agree that skill goes a long way, and strength doesn't fill in for skill, but I believe it can replace it when it comes to fighting.
Look at the final goal in a fight, to win by doing more damage then your opponent can handle. Training allows us to do this methodically and efficiently, however, it's not necessary to be methodical or efficient.
For example you mentioned learning to bend over and pivot to toss someone. Learning to do it right allows you to overcome your own inherent weakness, you might be a small person, and it allows you to overcome someones elses strength, to a certain degree. However, if I am big enough to pick you up and toss you, then that skill isn't needed. If you go for a toss or a flip on a much stronger opponent you might find yourself not able to perform the way you were because that person is strong enough to resist you.

[yenhoi]

However, if I am big enough to pick you up and toss you, then that skill isn't needed

No. Thats my lack of skill in not getting picked up and tossed, not your ability to pickup and move 200lbs+. You still have to chase me down, dodge or absorb any blows or other attacks I throw at you and get a grip on me. Your big strong muslces play little role until after my skill has failed, or yours has prevailed, depending on which side your on.

Strength doesnt prepare, decide, respond, react or anything, its just used, told what to do and when to do it by you.

If you go for a toss or a flip on a much stronger opponent you might find yourself not able to perform the way you were because that person is strong enough to resist you.

Then something is wrong with the skill. If you can resist my technique, then something I am doing is wrong: my timing(something is wrong with my timing if when I go to throw... you wont budge... i kicked wrong here or nudged wrong there or stepeed wrong here...) sensitivity (what the **** am I doing standing around trying to resist your resist?... resisting my throw, regardless of your strength vs mine, should set you up for another throw... should), etc. There are many attributes and skills, all of which have the same ultimate impact on the outcome of a skirmish or fight as strength does. It depends on what each participant is doing, and what each one is made of, literally.

[Becca]

Also depends on them not being too much bigger. As said earlier, I can throw bigger people, but that don't mean I can get in close enough to make the technique work in real fights. If they are dumb, I can trick 'em. If they aren't overly strong, I should be able to manuver them. But If they are too much bigger, reasonably strong, and not a dim whitt, I just cant get in close enough.

Also, equal sized and stronger with good training is tough to beat. Even if your training is better. 2/3s of a good fight strategy is knowing when you ain't got a prayer.

[Oso]

it's not all about raw mass. excess fat to muscle means that the guy can't move himself fast enough to effectively apply his mass to a technique. which brings me back to my first post: if you can meet a minimum level of strength to move yourself then that's good enough strength to fight competently. All else being equal of course.


also, unless I'm totally wrong about what mass really means, a 300 lb fat guy doesn't mass as much as a 300 lb body builder or power lifter.

[Richie]

A good example is Bob Sapp. He loses to smaller guy s cuz he has less fighting skill.

[red5angel]

yenhoi, there is the hitch. See, you can argue skill vs anything to the nth degree, however to be realistic only a certain level of skill can be reached by most. Like I said, I don't think that strength is the overriding factor, I just think it goes for a lot. If your an average martial artist and I am stronger then you, I say the chances are roughly equal of you or I winning.
A good example in my own experience is wing chun. An art the is supposed to relie on structure not muscle. However, oddly enough, all of the really good guys I have come across, have also been larger guys.
now often times, with top fighters, the smaller guys can do pretty well against even the larger guys and so I reiterate, strength isn't a totality, however I still have to argue that it plays a very large part.
No matter how much you are jumping around, or throwing punches or whatever, if you can't do that much damage to me, and I get a hold of you, your a dead man.