WT Fight Club

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by KenWingJitsu
Amusingly couch warriors sit back and pick, yet never spar lol.

On the contrary, that is what sparring too early in training does to Wing Chun.

[Phil Redmond]

Seems like some people were looking for textbook techniques. Real fights never look textbook.
PRedmond

[Merryprankster]

quote:
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Originally posted by KenWingJitsu
Amusingly couch warriors sit back and pick, yet never spar lol.
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On the contrary, that is what sparring too early in training does to Wing Chun.

On the contrary, that's what not sparring often enough does to anything.

[Alpha Dog]

Oh no, Merry, you are very wrong, very very wrong about that.

[Edmund]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Merryprankster
On the contrary, that's what not sparring often enough does to anything. [/QUOTE]

Dude, you don't even do Wing Chun according to your profile.

While I don't agree with Alpha Dog's opinion, how can you contradict it on an art you don't even do?

I'm having a hard time understanding why people who are not doing WC (and showing either little interest or even disdain for the art) would come to the WC forum and post their opinions on how to do WC better. Why do that?

[Merryprankster]

Because the question is actually more about training methods at this point, vice doing WC correctly.

Alpha Dog seems to fall into the camp of "teach them to do it 'right' then let them spar."

I fall into the camp of "teach them the basics, then let them play and refine as you go."

Different people have different ideas and even different ideas within that (ie, what constitutes the basics). No biggie. I find that most problems, regardless of style/system, are related to not sparring enough vice sparring too little or too soon.

Secondly, it's a public forum. Tough.

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by Merryprankster

Alpha Dog seems to fall into the camp of "teach them to do it 'right' then let them spar."

Yup.

Learning good structure isn't easy, it takes time. It takes time to learn sensitivity too.

What are the appropriate platitudes? Haste makes waste? That's a good one.

Anyway, that's just how I feel about the matter, Merry. If your way works for you, go for it.

[Zhuge Liang]

Hi Merry,

Originally posted by Merryprankster
I fall into the camp of "teach them the basics, then let them play and refine as you go."
[/B]

Basics are relative.

Regards,
Zhuge Liang

[kj]

IME&O, sparring and practice with no foundation yields internalization of anything but foundation.

Balance and timeliness in all things.

Regards,
- kj

“Doa lo yut cheung hung.”
You are empty when you are old, because you were empty at the beginning.

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
props to them for pushing it, but very much of it did look like a chain punch fest. i can't say much more than two years experience, if that, because i don't recall a single elbow being used, much less regular chi sau. also, WT teaches chin na starting at around 2½ years or so, and i didn't see any of that, either.

Watch the clip again. One fighter threw about 5 downward elbows to ward off a takedown. (This is about 2 fights after the fight where the guy loses his headgear). Of course the takedown might have gone better if the attacker had stuck to trying to take him down instead of stopping and going for body punches. Also I did see a few guys use the "Wing Chun entry technique" seen in the first part of the dummy form.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[rubthebuddha]

i stand corrected. i have to admit a slight giggle when i first saw that helmet fly off like a tire in an autoracing accident.

i'm going to side with merryp on the sparring too early/not early enough argument. while developing the best technical skills possible is extremely important, for reasons of protecting oneself, i would rather have the skills and experience i've gained in sparring now. i feel i'm better off defending myself with decent technique and experience with sparring than i would be with just good technique and little experience with using it while sparring.

[red5angel]

Actually Merryprankster, Alpha Puppy falls into the camp of not sparring at all, or have you changed your mind again AD? He has surpassed the need for testing his skills and now teaches the WC youngsters what real fighting is all about.
I'm with Renee, atleast they are doing it.

[Merryprankster]

MerryP - have you ever come into contact with any good wing chun? or any other good 'internal' CMA for that matter

I think many of the internal guys would disagree highly that WC is internal.

I've come in contact with some San Shou guys (I was impressed) but no WC guys beyond a couple or four I met in the prep room at a fight. He did reasonably well to be honest (kickboxing). Once the guy noticed he was keeping his right hand low though, it was beat down city, but other than that, he did well. Saw some excellent forward pressure and some nice kickcatches and dumps.

Alpha, friendly disagreement--no harm done. I have a feeling we disagree probably on only when and frequency with respect to sparring.

Zhuge, basics are relative, but only to a point. Give the guy his basic principles, basic applications, his basic footwork, and let him go play if you're reasonably confident he won't hurt himself.

The bottom line is that to me it's more important to train away flinch response and the shock of getting whacked as soon as possible. Great technique means crap if you're a bit shocked at what just happened when somebody hits/kicks you as hard as they can, flush. And it's something you have to regularly do--not something that you can do once or twice and go "ok." But that's my opinion.

Nobody here or in any other style is doing anything that special

rubthebuddha--careful, you'll get yourself a bad name :P

[rubthebuddha]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
rubthebuddha--careful, you'll get yourself a bad name :P

how so? for admitting when i'm wrong, or for agreeing with a no-good, horse-thievin' grappler?

[Merryprankster]

When were you ever wrong?

And yes, for agreeing with a no good horse-theiving grappler. You forgot to add "baby-killing" and "all brute strength and no technique."