Cha Chuan #4

[Ravenshaw]

As many of you know, there are 5 major long fist styles: Wah, Cha, Fah, Pao, and Hong (Sil Lum). Grandmaster Kuo Yu Cheung (Gu Ruzhang), a much known master of Bak Sil Lum, also had added five(?) Cha Chuan sets to his curriculum. Yim Shang Mo, Grandmaster Kuo's eldest student, taught three(?) of these. My teacher, Sifu Wing Lam, still teaches at least one of these: Cha Chuan #4.

Now, all of the Northern Shaolin core sets are named: for example #6 = Tun Da "The Short Strike" etc. I have not, though, been able to find the name of Cha Chuan #4.

My question is: Does anyone know is Cha Chuan #4 has a name and, if so, what is it?

[beiquan]

I believe that the Zhaquan form that we practice in BSL is called Muziquan -- Mother and Son Fist, this is what I have been told by my Sifu and Sigung, who also told me that it is the fourth routine.

However, when I did a search on Zhaquan in Yahoo I found Muziquan listed as first road, whereas fourth road is called Shengping (Great Peace). Perhaps the order or naming of sets is different in different Zhaquan lineages...

Anyway Zhaquan #4 is a popular routine and I have seen it performed at wushu competitions, the modern version is basically similar to the BSL set that I learned...

[Brad]

"This is # 1 , also known as the "Mother-Son" set of the Cha style. As in Shaolin, it is Long and somewhat involved. The old Kung Fu joke is that people are so scared you tell them it's your #1 that they don't want to fight. Cha movements are particularly geared toward grasping one of the main concepts of Kung Fu: namely convergence. These sets, while always graceful, will often ask the practitioner to perform multiple timed actions that coalesce at a certain beat. While Cha looks loose and wide its hidden corners and turns are what make it so interesting and representative of real Kung Fu skills. Cha is the main representative as a member of branches collectively known as Jiao Men or religious style pertaining to its Muslim origins ."

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd/vcd138.htm

They've got a vcd for #4 too, but don't give a name for it other than #4

[beiquan]

great thing about this forum is that whenever you have a question, it's usually already been answered somewhere

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...threadid=21436

[NorthernShaolin]

In Cha style there are three branches: Li, Chang and Yang with Yang and Chang being the most popular. Each of the three branches have 10 sets and are referred as the same traditional names across the board. However there exist names that are more comptemporary or descriptive. For example #1 is called Rising Hands and #4 is called Swing and Rising.

I like the more traditional names:
Cha # 1 is called Mother and Son while Cha # 4 is called Fork Step.

Off the top of my head, Cha#7 is called Plum Blossom in both traditional and contemporary.

If you want the complete list I can post it.

[Ravenshaw]

Thank you very much, everybody. My curiosity was eating me alive.

[norther practitioner]

If it wouldn't be too much of a hassle, it would be much appreciated NorthernShaolin.

[GeneChing]

Sifu Wing Lam used to know Cha #5 too, but he never practiced it and it fell out of his curriculam maybe two decades ago. I think he only claimed #4 and #5. He once set me up with a Cha master in Shandong who taught me a chunk of #5, but I've totally forgoten it now since it was only a fragment and that was over a decade ago. I think that master claimed five major hands sets for his Cha style, but I can't even remember that master's name. It was funny, actually, first his younger female student taught me a wushu version, then the old master taught me the traditional - one of my earlier lessons into the difference between traditional and wushu. There's a pic of that lesson in IKF March 1992 p.19. Extra points if anyone can tell me the old Cha master's name...

[NorthernShaolin]

Older Traditional Names:

Ch'a #1=Mother Seed
Ch'a #2=Hand Motion
Ch'a#3=Flying Kick
Ch'a#4=Slippery Fork
Ch'a#5=East Door
Ch'a#6=Crouching
Ch'a#7=Plum Blossom
Ch'a#8=Destroyer
Ch'a#9=Dragon Whips Tail
Ch'a#10=String Fist

While from ngokfei's eariler posting on the modern names:

Tao Lu Shang Shou Shi - 1st Road Rising Hands
Er Lu Xing Shou Shi - 2nd Road Moving Hands
San Lu Yao Xue Shi - 3rd road Shaking the Nest
Si Lu Liao Yin Shi - 4th Road Swinging and Rising
Wu Lu Kuai Zu Shi - 5th Road Fast Speed
Liu Lu Liu Jiao Shi - 6th Road Six Directions
Qi Lu Mei Hua Shi - 7th Road Plum Flower
Ba Lu Fei Hu Shi - 8th Road Flying Tiger
Jiu Lu Er Shi Si Shi - 9th Road 24 Forms
Shi Lu Chuan Tong Shi - 10th Road Unifying/Binding

[Ravenshaw]

Gene, you never mentioned if Sifu ever taught you the form. No one at the Sunnyvale school claims to know Cha Chuan #4. Even Raymond said he never learned it from him. Did you?

[GeneChing]

You didn't ask around enough. I learned it, so did Don Wong and Gary Shockley. Lori (and Carol?) learned a modern version somewhere, but never learned it from Sifu. Don and I still practice it when we get the chance. It's a fun form, some really great moves.

[Ravenshaw]

You're right. I talked to Don and he was able to remember the form, though he hadn't practiced it in some months. Carol said she and Lori learned a more contemporary version from a seminar in China, but Carol, at least, has now forgotten most it.

[GeneChing]

I remember doing an exchange with Lori on it years ago. I doubt she retained it either.
Don would remember it if we did it together. So would I. It's a good form, although we tended to play it with a heavy BSL accent so it didn't really look like Cha when we did it.

[kai men]

Hi fellows, long time not see...(read);-)
I know one of the forms , the # 4, and my teacher (as does Teacher Wing Lam) knows another form from that style, I suppose it is the same # 5.

I have some video with some students in Hong Kong, from the YSM School, performing the # 4 katchi
Kindest regards
horacio

[Fei jiao]

In the Cha Chuan system I studied, #4 is called Cha Hua Chuan.

The version I studied comes from Xu Gong Wei, who was a student of yu Jen Shen.