Funakoshi's art was just an imitation karate, not much more than a dance.

[rogue]

Nice history of Choki Motobu Just learning about this guy.

[Surferdude]

That dude said that cuz he was mad at Master Funakoshi!!!
Besides Karate that was practiced by almost all of these masters was a means of self defense, Not something to go around and beat the crap out of people, or wanting to get into fights.

Master Funakoshi also, i think had titles that Motubu didnt have, Besides if you took the time to study Shotokan Karate you would understand that its definetly not a dance.

[Mr Punch]

Relax, Sdude, Rogue is just researching the history of his art...!

[rogue]

Besides Karate that was practiced by almost all of these masters was a means of self defense, Not something to go around and beat the crap out of people, or wanting to get into fights.

No offense surfer but that's a cop out. The techniques I use for self defense better be as practical as the techniques someone uses to beat the crap out of people. A problem that still plagues karate are techniques that were changed from being practical to look more acceptable to the Japanese.

Master Funakoshi also, i think had titles that Motubu didnt have, Besides if you took the time to study Shotokan Karate you would understand that its definetly not a dance.

Great let's discuss the bunkai oyo of some of them. Glad to see people like Schmeisser and Harry Cook trying to make heads or tails out of Shotokans kata and move them from dance to something usefull. BTW My main art is TKD that still has a large section of Shotokan kata in it. I'm trying to move from dance myself.

[Chang Style Novice]

There's nothing wrong with dancing. It's just not very effective for self defense or beating the tar out of people.

[count]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
There's nothing wrong with dancing. It's just not very effective for self defense or beating the tar out of people.

I disagree. If you don't believe me have a look at this video clip.

[rogue]

There for you can't do it exactly like the set...

Something to remember when trying to make the "dancing" of any art practical.

Gene Kelly did a wonderful short film titled, "Dancing: A Man’s Game" where he showed how moves in sports are almost the same as moves in dance. But that said I don't think Kelly could go head to head with Micky Mantle or Sugar Ray Robinson in their sports.

Football isn't a contact sport; it's a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport. --Vince Lombardi

Count, were you in that vid?

[Liokault]

The link to Choki Motobu with the picture at the top......can anyone say HYPER EXTEND the elbow.



Are "we" ment to be looking up to thease guys as role models?

[rogue]

Liokault, it's a posed shot for something, he's barely touching the padding of the makiwara.

You look up to who you please. Motobu was a bad ass and a fighter like some of the old CMA masters. His fighting style seems to be pretty real world, very much infighting from some of the photos that I looked at. In my opinion he shows a side of karate that many want to sweep under the rug, an art based on fighting and not self improvement.

Pic

[Liokault]

Hes a guy I have read about before and my main problem with him being counted as a great karate guy is that I dont belive that he really did karate.

To me he looks like a guy who gets into a lot of fights, trains with weights, hits a makiwara and gets into more fights........hes a very good street fighter not a karate ka. Now theres nothing wrong with this in my view but lets call a spade a spade.

[Budokan]

Some traditional karate moves have been hidden in Okinawan folk dance as a way to mislead their Japanese overlords. But shotokan in and of itself ain't dance.

Anyone who thinks otherwise, or believes karate is ineffective because it's a "dance" is more than welcome to come by and see Budokan do a shotokan dance on their spleen...

[Surferdude]

Besides in that pic of Motobu you posted, his blocking arm is too high!!! So Hahahaha I win!!!

[Liokault]

Budokan

Do you think that your art as it is now in any way looks like the art taught by Funakoshi?

From what I have read in the past none of the things listed below have anything to do with the art as taught by Funakoshi in Japan.

Sparring

High kicks

Combinations

Competitions

Possibly 1 step sparring.


Funakoshi was big on such things as:


Standing in lines for hours drilling

Kata

The concept that self discipline improves your life.





I am prepared to bet that no one trains like Funakoshi (taught) today.

[yuanfen]

Bet? Sensei Koyama a protege of the late Nakayama who was a protege of Funakoshi still does in Phoenix Arizona.

[rogue]

I'm surprised at the sensitivity from my Shotokan cousins. Remember my main art is TKD so I'm at least a first cousin to you all but a step even further away from what the arts core was.

Some traditional karate moves have been hidden in Okinawan folk dance as a way to mislead their Japanese overlords. But shotokan in and of itself ain't dance.

Not sure about the first sentence but I agree with the second as long as there is thought behind the kata and training.

Besides in that pic of Motobu you posted, his blocking arm is too high!!!

How so? It's the same block I use in Isshinryu. Sometimes I block even higher if I'm going to wrap the arm.

Hes a guy I have read about before and my main problem with him being counted as a great karate guy is that I dont belive that he really did karate.
To me he looks like a guy who gets into a lot of fights, trains with weights, hits a makiwara and gets into more fights

Sounds like a karateka to me. Hell, sounds like several in their younger days that I know. Or is karate a bunch of out of shape people punching air while marching up and down the dojo hoping to become a better person?

This may raise your hackles, but here's a Link to a Shotokan book by Harry Cook.