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Thread: Shaolin-Do answers challenge.

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Shaolin-Do answers challenge.

    After reading the material in regards to Shaolin-do, it's obvious that there are abundant and persistent unanswered questions about the legitimacy of the style, as well as a negative stigma surrounding involvment with the topic. There seems to be some prejudice and preconceptions about anyone associated with SD. Basically anyone who studies it for any length of time automatically seems to be stripped of credibility with anyone who studies a 'real' martial art. So I propose a challenge.

    NOT a physical challenge but a mental one. I propose some common sense answers to the smoke and mirrors surrounding Shaolin-Do. The problem being that there have been no real answers to these problems surrounding it. The challenge is whether or not the answers will be acceptable and objective enough to keep the hostilities to a minimum.

    Here's the thing, there are bozos everywhere in everything. I'm sure that in your own schools there's the guy that sucks but thinks he's good, or the girl that gets on your nerves, or the parents that think their kid shouldn't have to do push ups. Then there's the bozos that come to class don't do anything don't learn anything but tell all their friends how hard they work out, basic hypocrit. There's something that we can all agree on, right?

    I don't want a debate to happen because debates are just that, debates, there's no resolution. Trolling is inevitable and expected and not surprising.

    So just because a few bozos in Shaolin Do have a website that sucks, and because of the inconsistencies in what one SD practioner says is different from the other, then obviously it's a GrandMaster's scam? But it's possible and verifiable to prove or disprove anything under the sun right? So I humbly request you all afford me the opportunity to defend Shaolin Do with some amount of objectivity and reason.

    I have a black belt in two different styles, 2st DAN in Tae Kwon-Do and 4th DAN in Shaolin Do for a total combined experience of 17+ years. I have studied intimately with both Sin The and his brother Hsiang The as well as some of their oldest and most loyal students. I have trained with Master Hsiang at his farm and had dinner with him and his kids. He's not only a good instructor he's a great friend and really nice guy. I have studied with Master Sin in the same manner and he's much of the same. So if I cannot readily answer some questions then I have access to find out the answer.

    I'm not trying sell myself as the one who know everthing but would like to represent SD with some honesty and knowledge. As I'm sure as is obvious even within SD there are people who do not like the sparring the performance of the forms or the people who practice them. Hell even Sin and Hsiang disagree to the point that they don't speak to each other anymore, that has more to do with family matters than the Shaolin though.

    Why is called Shaolin-Do? Because back in about 1995-96 or so the senior belts and Master Sin decided to try and form an association similiar to the Tae Kwon-Do, Karate, Aikido, etc associations that are there to regulate material and provide resources to students in the form of training, supplies, development of new schools blah blah blah. Up to that point each school had artistic license to name their school whatever they wanted. There were schools named, Winchester Shaolin Karate Do Academy, Shaolin Kempo Karate Do Academy, Richmond Chinese Martial Arts, etc etc....It was decided in a black belt meeting that the simplest name for the association was Shaolin Do Association, with the Do providing recognition to new prospects since most karate school have a Do in the name somewhere, and also because most of the other Shaolin names were already taken in copyrights or trademarks. Also 'Shaolin Do' would default a school as being part of Master Sin's line of Shaolin. So all schools that were under Master Sin had to have Shaolin-Do incorporated into the name of the school. It was a matter of being practical.

    I will provide more information as time permits, currently though I must return to my daily duties.

    More later........and thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy post about a heavily trolled subject.

    BTW that website with all the bad kata, everything that everyone has to say about it is so true it's not even funny. They truly don't have a clue about what it is they're supposed to be trying to do. They don't have any power, they don't understand the forms they're doing, and can't fight the current in a bathtub. I know because I've fought several of them from the same school, and my teacher has personally whipped the crap out the site owner. My teacher is one of the original set of students that the The's had when they started teaching here in the states. The site owner basically kissed a lot of poop holes and paid a lot of money for his rank. And I apologize that he is what you percieve as being our material. Even in the ranks of Master Sin's students dissention and ego runs rampant, and it's safe to say that there are only three original students that are credible representatives of SD. They're the only three left from the first years of instruction, first generation students. These other guys are usually just students of students of those original three.
    Blessed are the flexible, for they shall never break under the pressure!

  2. #2
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    Evad,

    Welcome to the forum. I wish you luck, my friend. I'll help you out if I can, but you seem ready for the challenge ahead.

    JP
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  3. #3
    Stacey Guest
    well, whatever, good for you, but as there is no quality control, I will continue to suggest that people go anywhere else and I for one won't go near a shaolin do school.

  4. #4
    Stacey Guest
    kempo. Their is nothing internal about anybody on the site...Grandpooba himself. Who can meditate while sucking in and flexing.....I'm not going to talk about master teenwolf,

    as you go down the masters page, people look worse and worse.

    If I were apart of this organization, I wouldn't brag about it. In fact, I would hook up with a real teacher and forget the sordid past.

    http://www.shaolin-do.com/masters/index.shtml

  5. #5
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    The name Shaolin is pretty much for anyones use. It's in the public domain now that it is so very old.

    As for the lineage and whatnot, who cares, what does it matter?
    Is the teacher good? Does the instruction deliver what is said it will deliver? Is it effective? (well apparently in some schools it is not, but hey, for every 1000 martial artists, 999 of them are not good period, but they do it for the exercise and the practice, maybe they will become good, maybe they will drop it.)

    Everybody gets all in a huff when someone makes it famous and gets some money going on.

    This is what will keep Martial arts pressed down and viewed as a kind of oddity for as long as all the proponents of the arts are actually proponents of themselves.

    I was told that this particular organization "hires" people into teh association who already have MA backgrounds. this matyerial is then absorbed into the curriculum. Sounds plausible there are so many forms! what is it at? 900 or something like that?

    yeesh, I have been taught 13 formal sets including weapons not including gongs or augmentation stuff in CMA, I learned another 5 kata in Isshinryu and a good deal of Tae Kwon Do.

    900!! The only way you could have that many formal sets is by hiring others to bring those sets in.

    As for the plaque at the temple, well, if I want to shell out the money, I can have a plaque at Shaolin too and I can have it say that I am a true master of Shaolin Kungfu who is spreading the arts to the world. It's totally a money thing and really has nothing to do with the Shaolin order other than it pays for the Bok Choy, snow peas, bean curd and tea for the temple

    I even understand why the whole story of the hairy grandmaster, the karate kum kungfu trend because of the popularity of Kungfu and the saturation of Karate.

    Now in this golden age of communication (I say communication and not enlightenment) it is not hard to find reems and reems of information about millions of aspects of Chinese martial arts.

    In the end, I will always fall back on Aristotle's quote:

    -"That which we are taught, we learn by doing."

    cheers
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #6
    Stacey Guest
    Kung Lek is a truly great man and behind every great man is a great woman.....http://uglypeople.com/uglywomen/html/up-women-00269.htm


    are you gonna make it to this years highland games with the Mrs?

  7. #7
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    yeah yeah yeah, I've seen all Sin's "top students", Sin, Hsiang and some of his first students who learned from him at the UK Karate Club. Not impressed.



    Master Killer- Shaolin Do was referred to as Karate until kung fu became more profitable, sometimes also "Chinese Karate". Sin The's first book was called "Karate" as a matter of fact.

    Want a good laugh? Then by all means check out (Don't buy for god's sake) this little gem : Secrets From The Temple as my grandma would say it's all a buncha malarky.

  8. #8
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    as you go down the masters page, people look worse and worse.
    come on stacey ... any organization run by liu kang has got to be the real deal.
    where's my beer?

  9. #9
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    where's my beer?

  10. #10
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    oh and for those who didnt bother check out the site this is the master teenwolf stacey was talkin about.
    where's my beer?

  11. #11
    Two questions for you...

    1.Where would a shaolin monk get a western suit and tie ?

    2.Why isn't there any record in the shaolin temple of a monk who had this skin/hair condition ?
    No brag, just fact.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by Stacey
    kempo. Their is nothing internal about anybody on the site...Grandpooba himself. Who can meditate while sucking in and flexing.....I'm not going to talk about master teenwolf,

    as you go down the masters page, people look worse and worse.

    If I were apart of this organization, I wouldn't brag about it. In fact, I would hook up with a real teacher and forget the sordid past.

    http://www.shaolin-do.com/masters/index.shtml
    Listen little boy, I was studying Shaolin Do while you were still sucking on your momma's tittie. You are all of 19 years old? Maybe when you have lived 19 more years you will learn some respect. Just because Shaolin Do isn't full of some f a ggoty hopping around and running around in circles that makes it non authentic? You do understand that what is viewed as "kung fu" today was the Chinese government's attempt to create a national sport. I am getting sick and tired of all the namecalling. Why don't you just leave the forums and go back to playing quake or watching UFC reruns. It amazes me that if my art isn't real how I have been able to defend myself in the few misfortunate times I have had to use it in real life, the last time being against 3 attackers. This with my meager abilities.

    I would not insult your masters and I ask that you don't insult mine either.
    Last edited by themeecer; 06-24-2003 at 06:28 PM.

  13. #13
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    I am curious as to what bases people are establishing Shaolin-do is not a viable art? what is it that makes it so different from other arts that work out there? Why is it people are finding it so hard to believe it might be a viable art? I have no opinion on the matter, I am just curious why this has been so sensational on this forum?
    _______________
    I'd tell you to go to hell, but I work there and don't want to see you everyday.

  14. #14
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    Cool "sigh"

    Hey guys? (non-Sd people) you remember when I used to be like this?

    It feels very good to be free of it. You know what i say?

    let them do what it is that they do,,,they dont hurt you guys and they certainly arent tainting anything valid, in my opinion.

    i know its good to get the blood stirred up every now and then.
    but it may be that there are better ways to stir things up ,,say like TRAINING at your kwoon or dojo and letting things be.

    i have freed myself of the organization,,,,,,maybe its time all the non-sd peeps free themselves of the unending dribble of posts on this subject and we can get back to more important matters.

    such as "would bruce lee be able to kick vin diesels A$$ in a cage match?"

    Many respects,,,The Willow sword
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  15. #15

    Re: "sigh"

    Originally posted by The Willow Sword
    Hey guys? (non-Sd people) you remember when I used to be like this?

    It feels very good to be free of it. You know what i say?

    What calmly standing up and asking people to quit with the name calling? Or being like the "authentic" martial artists that cannot post one post without displaying their IQ through their actions in the SD threads?

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