Just HIT'EM already, for God's sake!!!!

**Suntzu** · 06-25-2003, 07:25 AM

two man sets are great… depending on the drill… what I CANT STAND are the when people drill and try not to make contact… now first starting the drill you have to get the movements and its finer parts straight… but the purpose (IMO) of the drill is to condition a response... now after months of refining the movements... students need to start adding the stress of getting hit... some school i see are doing the same deill but call it an advanced drill because its faster or has more 'parts' to it... that kills me...

**Royal Dragon** · 06-25-2003, 07:56 AM

depends on what you are practicing.... practicing 'perfect' technique for the most part will NOT translate in the midst of a confrontation... IMO ofcourse...

Reply]
True, that's why I say you should practice hitting resisting opponenets.

No offence but you fight as you train. What are you going to do if a guy jumps you, start doing solo drills?

Reply]
Agreed, this is the point of my original post. you need to mix it up, both in prearranged drills, and free sparriing. I know most schools do this, but what's the deal with hours of drills in the air for long periods of time?? It's like the balance is backwards. I think the twoman work should be for hours, and the air drills for like 20 minutes tops. I can even see doing full forms over basic air drills for long periods of time, because they are often more intense, and you get great cardio to burn fat and thus chisle your abbs. There's something productive there. But with the air drills, usually they are the same thing as the techniques, or very similar. Since your doing the same motion anyway, why not do it with a partner?

I can see in special casses, like partner drills for throws might have been a bad idea when my back was blown out still, but otherwise?

**shaolinboxer** · 06-25-2003, 08:15 AM

I think kicking and punching in the air is worth while because it teaches you how to miss, which is pretty darn important. And it is fun to flow through movements.

Also, if you could hit, but have your mind free as if you were just punching the air...wouldn't that be something?

**SaMantis** · 06-25-2003, 08:54 AM

I agree that you should work with a partner ... practicing solo has many good points, but working techniques with someone else will teach you (a) how the tech should work (in slow, 2-person practice); (b) how the tech will probably work (in full-speed sparring); (c) any structural flaws that will affect your balance/speed/technique etc. in application.

Solo practice is good, but apps practice and sparring (at whatever level you/your sifu decides) balances it out & gives you a realistic picture of your progress.

Namely, if you were me, you'd end up on your ass a lot. At least, I do.

**Chang Style Novice** · 06-25-2003, 08:58 AM

I really miss two person practice. I'm sure I've lost bunch of steps by soloing.

**Royal Dragon** · 06-25-2003, 09:10 AM

Yeah, me too. In fact, I am teaching Kung Fu to one of my Taiji students, soley so I have someone to drill techniques with.

**Robinf** · 06-25-2003, 10:41 AM

Without practicing with a partner, all you're learning to do is dance. Break out the tu-tu's.

Heavy bag is good for working on power. You can kick/punch harder with an object there to stop you. Just hitting/kicking the air, you learn how to stop yourself.

That said, it is important to do solo training to work on combinations. In the air, your combos can flow freely.

That said, when practicing with a partner 2 things happen: 1) we hopefully go lighter than we do to the air or bag so we can both practice the next day; 2) partners don't move like the air so we often can't use combinations, and they don't stand as still as a bag so we can hit them repeatedly with the same technique in the same spot.

That said, it helps to take a few hits. This trains the "shock factor" out of getting hit, and trains you to keep going.

Looking forward to reading refutes.

**Suntzu** · 06-25-2003, 10:46 AM

2) partners don't move like the air so we often can't use combinations,

that's all i disagree with...

**Royal Dragon** · 06-25-2003, 10:52 AM

Why?

**Suntzu** · 06-25-2003, 11:01 AM

combinations should be worked in a drill… it conditions the offensive partner to use more than one attack and conditions the defensive partner to defend a combo… for instance… lets say a lead hook, cross and rear leg roundhouse… just to keep it simple… the defender could catch the hook... slip or catch the cross and than check the kick... or whatever your style would answer that attack with... many schools i see are stuck on>>> reverse punch... block or some ish like that... does that make sense?...

**IronFist** · 06-25-2003, 11:08 AM

Good thread!

IronFist

**Shaolin-Do** · 06-25-2003, 11:23 AM

Free sparring with intended movements is what me and my friend do, to learn to incorporate certain techniques into a real fight. Pick a few moves, and chin na techs and spar with nothing but.

The air drills are good for speed and power, especially if done with weights on wrists and feet. I love wearing my ankle and hand weights and doing forms. Take them off to spar and it feels like your hands and feet are feathers.

Practicing with a friend and doing forms solo in the air are 2 ends to a nunchaku, with only one side you dont have anything really useful. (yes you could still club someone, but its a metaphor d@mnit) You need both to have efficiency.

**Suntzu** · 06-25-2003, 11:33 AM

Free sparring with intended movements is what me and my friend do, to learn to incorporate certain techniques into a real fight. Pick a few moves, and chin na techs and spar with nothing but.

yeah... basically...but *I* would not use the word sparring for the simple fact that sparring=trying to beat the other guy/gal… DRILL is what I use b'cuz the focus is more on technique… timing… rather than winning…

The air drills are good for speed and power,

i disagree...

especially if done with weights on wrists and feet.

your joints will ove you later in life... altho I don't see anything wrong with doing solo exercise with weights in a slow controlled manner… but when I see people going all out w/weights… I wince…

**Christopher M** · 06-25-2003, 02:05 PM

IMHO...

Solo exercises are excellent for alot of things; learning martial technique isn't one of them.

Large classes of people throwing mock-strikes into the air for hours has alot more to do with the good-bad teching continuum than any traditional-modern or sport-selfdefense continuum (or anything of that sort).

This doesn't mean you throw out solo exercises. Alot of people believe there's more to martial arts (and I'm speaking on a purely "martial" level here) than martial techniques. Solo exercises are great for these sorts of things. If you lift weights or do cardio, you're allready putting this philosophy into practice implicitly.

**Christopher M** · 06-25-2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
The air drills are good for speed and power, especially if done with weights on wrists and feet. I love wearing my ankle and hand weights and doing forms.

Think about the direction of force gravity is exerting on your body as a result of wearing those weights, and think about the corrosponding tension induced in your muscles to compensate. Are these vectors along the lines you want to train for the movements you are doing? If they're not, is training your body to be unnessesarily tense a goal of your training? Do you think that the resulting posture you'll make reflexive with this training is going to be ideal for these movements done without weights?

Thread: Just HIT'EM already, for God's sake!!!!

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