Attn: themeecer

[Serpent]

So, why are you ignoring me then? I can see that you're online and that you're reading the topics with my questions in them.

[SanSoo Student]

I wonder if he is starting to realize that you cannot possibly master Hsing Yi, Tai Chi, and Chi Kung all in 10 years; as Shaolin-Do claims you can. Maybe his art is false after all..

[Evad]

Maybe not false, maybe just oversimplifying an obvious truth that you can't master anything in 10 years or 100 years. Maybe in 10 years you might start to get good at one technique, or gain an understanding of a concept.

One of the things said of tai chi, it takes 10 years to learn the movements correctly, 10 more years before you feel chi, 10 more years to learn to move that chi and make it grow, and 10 more years to learn how to use that chi to achieve something. I believe this is from the Bill Moyer's special called Healing and the Mind. It's a great documentary and book, it does a great job of covering internal stuff from china. Again there are bozos in everyones dojo, and anyone in SD that has made the claim of mastering a particular style in 10 years is not only ignorant and egotistical but foolish to expect someone to believe it, I'm surprised that anyone would even dignify such nonsense with a remark or response. Somethings are just plain old common sense, a veritable DUH is in order for sure, but a conviction of an art being a false...no.

[taijiquan_student]

"One of the things said of tai chi, it takes 10 years to learn the movements correctly, 10 more years before you feel chi, 10 more years to learn to move that chi and make it grow, and 10 more years to learn how to use that chi to achieve something."

That's bull****.

[brassmonkey]

lol we need to combine Shaolin Do's, Huang's, TWS's, Erle Montaigues and Royal Dragons words to write new classics

[Evad]

sorry bout that taijiquan_student wasn't trying to lay down any gospel there, that's just something that I've heard said of tai chi by some old masters trying to explain to a western doctor the concept of 'time and effort' on a learning channel documentary.

It does however take approximately 10 years for a surgeon to learn his craft right, 4 years degree, 4 years post grad, 2-4 more internship, I think the statement is illustrative of the amount of time needed to become what you'd call a master of something, and in regard to tai chi, time and effort only make you better right.

There's thing called metaphor and abstract thinking involved with the statement that as you put it is bull****.

[taijiquan_student]

I'm not saying it doesn't take a lifetime to become a "master". I'm just saying all that stuff about taking 10 years to learn anything in taiji is BS.

[Evad]

your right it doesn't take 10 years to learn anything in tai chi, who said it did? I'm not advocating that in anyway, it's one of those cliched statements you'd read on a t-shirt somewhere, you know like you can teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime blah blah blah

You agree though that you can't learn tai chi in it's entirety in one day right? The point is, it takes time to learn anything, whether it be 10 minutes or 10 years.

[Shaolin Shi]

One of the things said of tai chi, it takes 10 years to learn the movements correctly, 10 more years before you feel chi, 10 more years to learn to move that chi and make it grow, and 10 more years to learn how to use that chi to achieve something. I believe this is from the Bill Moyer's special called Healing and the Mind.

I think you're confusing a statement made by Ma Yueh Liang:

Moyers: How long did it take you to discover your chi?

Ma: It took me ten years to discover it. But it took me thirty years to learn how to use it.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Evad
One of the things said of tai chi, it takes 10 years to learn the movements correctly, 10 more years before you feel chi, 10 more years to learn to move that chi and make it grow, and 10 more years to learn how to use that chi to achieve something. I believe this is from the Bill Moyer's special called Healing and the Mind. It's a great documentary and book, it does a great job of covering internal stuff from china.

First time I heard that one.
Never heard of Bill Moyer what style does he study?

Yang Lu Chan the FOUNDER of Yang TJQ studied at Chen Village for 18yrs.

Cheers.

[Oso]

Bill Moyer is/was a journalist, I think.

<blurry recollection>PBS backed him in doing a study of asian health practices in the early 90's which resulted in a book and a 5 part series that debuted in 92 or 93.</blurry recollection>

I've seen parts of it but not the whole thing. Pretty good, imo.

It may have been the lead off media event to the last decades trend towards holistic medicine. I happened to be managing a book store at the time and senior citizens ate it up.

[BeiKongHui]

Maybe in 10 years you might start to get good at one technique, or gain an understanding of a concept.

Yet Sin The' calims to have learned 900 forms in ten years.

Amazing.

[Laughing Cow]

Oso.

Thanks, for the info.

[Oso]

wanted to check the dates...it was 92/93

From Publishers Weekly
In this intriguing companion volume to a PBS TV series, Moyers explores the roles of thoughts and emotions in illness and health through interviews with 16 doctors and scientists. He visits stress-reduction clinics and a cancer patients' support group, and he investigates the new field of psychoneuroimmunology, which emphasizes the importance of patients' attitudes to optimal immune-system functioning. He also travels to China to study acupuncture, therapeutic massage and chi gong , the manipulation of vital energy to ameliorate chronic neurologic and muscular diseases. Among those interviewed are University of California physician Dean Ornish, who has reversed heart disease in patients with treatments combining meditation, stress-reduction exercises, group therapy, walking and vegetarian diet; neurobiologist David Felten, discoverer of nerve fibers that link the nervous system to the immune system; and Thomas Delbanco of Harvard Medical School who seeks ways to transform the doctor-patient relationship so that patients are more actively involved. Color and black-and-white reproductions of art by Kathe Kollwitz, Rene Magritte, Norman Rockwell, Paul Klee and others interact suggestively with the text.

and here's a link to an article blasting the book and series

http://www.hcrc.org/special/media/moyers.html

just to keep things even

i still thought it was pretty cool and certainly opened doors in peoples minds about other, albeit questionable, methods of healing.

[GLW]

Thanks OSO.

I was hoping someone would point out how Moyers did things.

While Qi Gong for health is a good thing, Acupuncture, herbs, and other Chinese Medicine treatments DO work on a large number of things...grouping them in with the "Qi Healing" and the pushing of a "Taiji Master" the way Moyers showed it only cheapened the VALID points he was making.

You have to know how to separate the fly sh!t from the pepper...