The key word in this statement being LEARNED in 10 years. I totally diagree with that claim from from Master Sin and some of his senior students. And in fact I have talked to him about it, which didn't go over well, I got in trouble for mentioning it, and it's understandable that it would grit the teeth of everyone who hears that claim.Originally posted by BeiKongHui
Yet Sin The' calims to have learned 900 forms in ten years.
Amazing.
There are three things that obfuscate the claim.
One - the meat of the statement is the fact that when you say 900 forms there's no definition of 'form.' Is there a universal standard measurement for the length and content of a 'form?' Some forms are really long, some forms are really short but they still fall under the 'form' catagory. There are subsets of larger forms, for sake of argument and to prevent more ridicule, I'll call a form we study a generic 'bird' imatation kata; it's a single kata approximately 1.5 minutes in length, but it's broken down into three sections that are relatively short, and each section has it's own name, and can be studied and praticed independent of the larger whole, but when you perform all three sections consecutively then we call that three kata set a name. So should we classify that as one kata or three? Also, if you learn how to block and counter a punch on the right side in a one step technique, you have to learn the left as well, so that doubles that one small kata right there, and then there's what to do against both hands, so in one technique there's three pieces. Most of the material that comprises the 900 kata are groups of these types of kata broken down into component parts to sound impressive, which is Bullcrap as anyone will agree. Divide 900 by whatever number makes up what Sin actually knows and you get a much more reasonable claim, the problem getting is Sin to own up and come down to earth in universal terms. I've read posts on this forum requesting information on particular Praying Mantis points involving something like 16 forms, multiply those 16 into there component sections and how many 'forms' do you get? I don't know and I'm generalizing.
second - how many total hours make up the content of training, most us starting out may only get new material during the few hours/week that we're at our respective classes. So if you attend a two hour class five days/week, do you spend the entire two hours learning new material or in combonation of revue and new stuff? Assume you spend half the time on new material, that's five hours/week learning a new form and five hours/week revue and practice. Assume your teacher or teacherS have something to teach you for 10 years in this manner. And you could somehow manage to maintain that routine for the whole 10 years, how many 'forms' could you learn compared to how many you would actually be proficient with and master. All the old masters spent countless hours with their teacher's some practically lived with them. Master Sin and Hsiang's family owned a large textile plant in Indonesia they were the typical rich asians in Indonesia, so they had time for private instruction in their schooling as well as having a Grandfather along with several colleagues who themselves were accomplished teachers. According to Master Hsiang, he would learn what he wanted, whatever he was interested in he would sit in on the class, sometimes they would teach things that he didn't care for so he would play hooky and go pick fights with local kids or whatever. Master Sin being the the oldest son and heir to his fathers business and his grandfathers martial arts had to learn whatever was being taught, similiar to a private school education that your rich parents make you go to, I'm sure he hated some of the material taught but learned it anyway or get thirty lashings. So if you have the time say four to six hours per day to practice and learn, and you have six to seven days/week and your around 8 years old with little say in what your assigned to do, at the end of 10 years what could you have learned? What would you do? If it was me I think I'd be ready to get the hell out of the country and study engineering, I'd be sick as hell of martial arts. Master and Hsiang both started training at 8 years of age, Master Sin had his last lesson with his teachers at the age of 25, so that gives him 17 years to learn a bunch of stuff, Master Hsiang spent four years more than Master Sin learning one specific set that was available, he chose to "Major" in bird systems, his last lesson with his grandfather was shortly before he died, and he continues be in contact with another teacher to this day.
third - while highly unlikely and nearly impossible to duplicate, and since no one can deny that in other areas of study such as medical, musical, engineering, and others; it is possible to LEARN 900 PIECES of material. The real problem is the ego stroking and unrealistic nature of the claim. High school teachers in 10 years will learn the names of 1000's of students, and they may know each students name and face while they have them in class those four years, but in 15 years they won't know anybody from adam, but they'll have annuals with the mug shots and names to go with them forever, and looking through those annuals will jog memories of the popular class clown but faintly recall the quiet geek in the corner. So Master Sin may have learned a lot and exaggerated the issue by saying I know 900 kata, but only the stuff he likes is what's out, the rest is locked away in a foot locker for reference.
Finally, who gives a crap that someone claims to know 900 pieces of whatever, I'm mean really how many different ways can there possibly be to flail your arms and legs and body? You can know 90,000 it doesn't mean anything unless you specialize in something and condition and train and keep up with it, no matter your style or system or whatever.
So I disagree with the statement profusely, but I concede that it's possible maybe not believeable but POSSIBLE. Before a dude named Roger Banister no one could run a mile in under 4 minutes either, and since his time 1000's of ppl have broke the 4 minute mark, including high school students...what changed gravity? Besides maybe Master Sin spends a lot of nights at a Holiday Inn Express...
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