Shaolin Abbot is an *******!

[Stumblefist]

"Communism was a reaction to this totalitarian rule and while far from perfect (what government is?) it works for China now. We can only hope that China continues to progress. Mao's ultimate goal for PRC was democracy."
Communism IS a totalitarian dictatorship. It only "works" at the point of a gun, nobody in China has any choice about it. You will see what really "works" when the statues of Mao are in the warehouses like Stalin's are in Russia.
Mao's ultimate goal was su[preme power for himself. He achieved this. He was a stalinist. Please point out where in the CCP it is written that they want democcracry. Of course in the languague of newspeak, they have democracy, they have multiple parties. Of course they are all controlled by the CCP.If he had wanted democracy he would have allowed the existence of other political parties. That is total anathema to communism.
Originally pepole thought that communism maent freedom, htey had no idea it meant totalitarian slavery. Nothing of orignial communist ideals remain. Because power is absolute the ideals can be constantly spouted and proclaimed but never lived up to because propaganda and mind control is complete, there is no competiton in the information market. Now the only purpose of Communism is to maintain totalitarian control, that is fotr the boss to remain the boss no matter what the price is to others.
Let me be clear, not only would i say people should not look for truth in what you say they should look for your falsity because you are an admitted propagandist with a personal interest at stake.
Saying that people deserve to be enslaved because their ancestors were enslaved is hardly positive and it is racist.
You have paid for a fantasy, that of being a follower of a "shaolin monk", essentially the comic book fantasy of a child. Maintaining the propaganda and myths of communism is damaging to kungfu and the lives of real human beings.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[This message was edited by stumblefist on 08-19-01 at 03:49 AM.]

[Stumblefist]

I missed that somewhere.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[Stumblefist]

Oh, i get it, Orwell's julia.
Well i'll give you my answer a lttle later, but i think i would suprise you gene. After all i LIVE like a martial artist, not pay for the fantasy. When you eat bitter you develop a taste for it.
I am not the one who took the cable car up to Jin Ding it was you and your lazy "master". And i don't complain about the "uncomfortable" train rides, i can't get enough of them.
I'm not saying i can't be broken, many good men have, especially in Vietnam.
But why are you asking me this? Are you using this as an excuse for the choices you have made. We always have a choice.
Winston just didn't get a chance to recover.
I would say "they forced me and declare my love and not to believe their lies or my own that i am forced to make" and i would never believe the situation totally hopeless. I believe free men will eventually triumph.
I do have some morality you know, i am not mainland chinese born and cultured.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[inpho]

(Note, I don't want to seem as though I'm crassly only paying attention to this in as much as it effects me. It's just such a, shall I say, sketchy, issue I'm not sure what my stance is on it.)

Since Shi Yongxing is Shi Goulin's master, who is in turn, my master, I have to wonder what, if anything, this says about Shi Goulin. I know next to nothing about the disciple/master relationship at Shaolin itself. Is it possible that Shi Goulin was Shi Yongxing's Chan student but not his martial pupel?

I'm very split on this matter being as I've never witnessed anything but the utmost devotion and well, Buddhist behavior from Shi Goulin. Also his kung fu and qigong are indisputably amazing. I hate to think that he had a 'flawed' teacher, although I do have the habit of being blind to that which I don't want to see.

I agree that Shaolin should be a less touristy institution and it would be nice if there weren't so many satallite schools surrounding it but I can't help and think that it's an attribute of the situation. Also as to the fact that forced relocation is common in China, I don't think that makes it 'right.' If the abbot during the cultural revolution saw that random assasinations were common it wouldn't make it ok for him to do it. Shi Yongxing is above all a religious leader, that is something which should transcend all national barriers.

Also, as to Shi Yongxing's not knowing any martial arts, that's utterly irrelevent. Not all monks know martial arts. Shaolin isn't a martial arts school, it's a temple and religious center. Kung Fu was developed at Shaolin to function as a form of active meditation, it's just another technique in meditation. Shi Yongxing needent know a **** thing about kung fu and it in no way reflects his status as a religious figure.

[NorthernMantis]

Gene I'm not pointing figers at anyone nor I believe everything I hear but it has been mentioned before that the current abbot tried to murder another monk who was going to supposedly be choesn as the next abbot and that the other monk had fled to europe.Now my knowledge on this isn't good but these are some scandalous accuasations.

"Always be ready"

[GeneChing]

stumble: If you don't complain about uncomfortable train rides, why bother complaining about me? I'm not forcing you to ride my train, but I'm grateful that you have and keep continuing to. Better to have a complaining rider than none at all...
My Orwell reference was to pull our discussion up a literary notch. If we follow your original analogy, what is your opinion on the Malabar Front?

inpho: Have we met? Where you with Guolin when I visited him earlier in the year? Are you still there? Let's pick up this discussion on the Who has trained with a Shaolin Monk thread - I'm curious how things are going without Hengxin.

northernmantis: There are a lot of nasty rumors spread about Yongxin. In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. In China, they might just shoot you then charge your family for the bullet. In either case, rumors remain unproven until that critical moment...

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[Anarcho]

I think the point of that section of 1984 was not that they forced him to lie or to renounce something or someone to avoid torture. The point was that they put him in a situation that was so horrible to him that he actually genuinely preferred that they put Julia in that situation than him. It's a very dark idea, very different from the old "confess or you'll be tortured" thing. The point being made is that sometimes finding out what your priorities *really* are can be a disturbing experience.

[GeneChing]

Yes, I totally agree. That's what's so chilling about 1984, it has a brutally honest ending on the human level. But Orwell got communism way wrong, at least as far as China. It's not like big brother and being watched by hidden cameras. It's not spy stuff at all, there isn't the technology to back it there. It's more like posse mentality. Cross the community and you'll end up lynched.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[NorthernMantis]

I never said I tottaly agreed.They did make me rasie an eybrow or two.

"Always be ready"

[Stumblefist]

"stumble: If you don't complain about uncomfortable train rides, why bother complaining about me?"
I am not complaining about you, i am arguing against your arguments. That is part of "discussion". I don't just not complain, i enjoy eating bitter, practice up a few more years and you might get it.
------------------------------------------------
I said:
"The communist part keeps Wushu artifically alive for its own purposes of fostering amoung which are fostering nationalism and hatred of other peoples and countries.
.....
"As for your last paragraph, I'm not sure what your getting at exactly.... "hatred of other people's" Gene Ching
-----------------------------------------------
That is the "Malabar Front" Gene. Actually you are standing on it. You see the nationalism in China is not just simple pride. Ask any foreigner living in Beijing, it is like living with rabid dogs. The CCP uses nationalism, the Games etc to foster hatred and racism against other countries. While they say no to meedle in their own affairs, they have no trouble making other countries their affair.
Communism NEEDS to have an Enemy. If they didn't choose AMerica they would choose someone else.
There is no room for internal political dissent of outlet, the way to deflect attention away from the ineptitude and corruption of the CCP is to have an external enemy. So the games and Wushu are a political weapon externally and internally.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[Stumblefist]

"Yes, I totally agree. That's what's so chilling about 1984, it has a brutally honest ending on the human level."

I don't agree, i think the ending was contrived.
The human level is a lot stronger than Orwell knew. Very few people would volunteer the words "Do it to"... somebody else. Most people would have to be fed those words and programmed into them.

Truth is that although theoretically everyone can be broken, many, many have died stubbornly in the torture or mind-control room refusing to say or betray or just preferring not to exist than give in. So perhaps that theory is not so correct.
If Julia said to me afterward, "i betrayed you", i would say, i know, so did i, forget it it wasn't our fault and i would hug her. Human desire to triumph and be free is indefatigable.
As for myself, i have been in Room 101, i am the product of extreme experience.

"But Orwell got communism way wrong, at least as far as China. It's not like big brother and being watched by hidden cameras. It's not spy stuff at all, there isn't the technology to back it there."

Wrong, big brother is watching you in China, it is just slow laborious and beaurocratic and often just done on need-to-do-basis. But the slowness doesn't matter because you are not going anywhere, China is a vast prison camp.
... and a terrible trend starting, the technology to back it is now becoming available, and cheap, and plentiful and easy to install... the near-future is wide open to any possibility.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[diego]

armageddon
electronik traking price tags behind the earlobe
of all babies???.

dont think pleasant its agianst the clockwork
not only do they print your mind they trick you into thinking freedom is real and to stand up agianst them
so they can weed out those genetics with heart so they may destroy
and only build good little robot monkeys....

whothahell is they isnt it us?? or them!!...ohno

tis a trip of a thought tho

but thats not communism thats called new age tactikal mafia gungfu with the correct spelling and all

[Stumblefist]

"not only do they print your mind they trick you into thinking freedom is real and to stand up agianst them
so they can weed out those genetics with heart so they may destroy
and only build good little robot monkeys...."
....
Thanks for the warning Diego, i'll keep my eyes open for when they come to weed me out.

I wonder if you're showing signs of some stress there. Maybe it's time to kick back with a few pina-coladas and burritos. I'm sure enjoying the 1950 hamburgers, banana pancakes and local brew,
kicking back here in Guilin county.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[GeneChing]

:confused:

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[xian_witch]

GO TO THE BAR OR SOMETHING, GO DEFLATE. YOU HAVE TOO MUCH YANG RISING TO YOUR HEAD. SHAOLIN IS NOT NECESSARILY AN INSTITUTION, IT IS A PHILOSOPHICAL DISCIPLINE. THERE HAS BEEN INJUSTICES EVERYWHERE AND AT ALL TIMES. THE TRUTH SHALL ENDURE.

GENE- I COMMEND YOUR STANCE. CAN YOU AT SOME POINT MAYBE POST ALL THE URLS OF TEH ARITICLES YOU HAVE WRITTEN ON SHAOLIN, ETC? I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR REPORT OF SHAOLIN UPON YOUR RETURN!

harmonize the forces of heaven, earth, and hell.