Shaolin Abbot is an *******!

[Stumblefist]

"stumble, what makes you happy?
Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher"

Therein lies your problem Gene. I am quite happy and i enjoy countering your arguments and propaganda. It is good intellectual exercise. You are far too soft. More like a pretend-martial artist. As i said before, not only do i not complain, but i enjoy eating bitter. That's a development from ... martial arts.
...
You cannot have positive solutions until you accept and face up to the negative, and learn to enjoy the whold process.

If you cannot accept and face up to negative emotions and negative circumstances in life then you will lead a superficial existence.
Moreover when you learn to ENJOY your negative emotions then your personal growth will really take off and your feelings will be that much more wholistic and you will enjoy the positive emotions that much more. And when you reach that stage you will realize you can still declare your love for Julia on the Park Bench. Following your restrictive philosophy, it seems you end up in despair and "the chiling side".
I probably enjoy life a great deal more than you do.
(And i do have lots and lots of sexual pleasure Mr. bride-no-hair). If you come to Chna i'll show you around the barbershops if you want, so long as you don't tell nmy girlfriend.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[GeneChing]

Sorry stumble, you just sound so unhappy. But if your happy, that's cool. That actually makes me happy too, but forgive me if I'm more curt than you - I can't spend too much time on the fourms or I'll go blind.

Eating bitter doesn't mean that'a all you have to eat. After all, what would life be without soy sauce and hot peppers? Perhaps I read you wrong, but your writing styles is so inflammatory. That's why bride comments on your sexual status. You sound pent up. But if you happy, well, cool.

As for me, I wish I was softer. As I've said before (in print no less) I'm the real 'fake' monk. I've copped to that many times. Man, I have a reputation to uphold. I hate eating bitter - when I was a kid, I dreaded the night mom made bittermelon. But I'm glad you like it. You can have my share.

Actually I don't think anyone should enjoy negative emotions, and I suppose the Buddhist response would be that you shouldn't enjoy positive emotions either. Balance is about appropriate response to the moment. Enjoying negativity is not appropriate. One shouldn't hide from it certainly, but enjoy it? That's not right.

As for our Orwell analogy (and this has been my favorite part) I think you read it wrong. Winston was totally broken in the end. That was the whole point. It was love of Big Brother. But consider this - If I am the Ministry of Truth, you must be the Ministry of Peace (creating the illusion of a war where ther isn't one.) Before we go on, we need to find love and plenty....

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[Stumblefist]

"Actually I don't think anyone should enjoy negative emotions, and I suppose the Buddhist response would be that you shouldn't enjoy positive emotions either."
You see, you are just wondering, you don't KNOW anything. Emotions are LIFE. You have learned to be dead. When you learn to enjoy negative emotions you will really love life. Loving your negative emotions is to be fully accepting and loving life.
I know you can't "get" it. You are not the only one.
BTW Budddhism isn't about shouldn'ts it's about enlightenment and acceptance.

"As for our Orwell analogy (and this has been my favorite part) I think you read it wrong. Winston was totally broken in the end. That was the whole point."
No, i didn't read it wrong. I told you Orwell's ending was contrived. The whole point is you needn't be broken, I wasn't, many of us are not, and if we are, we can all recover and the human spirit is forever excelsior.
The point is i believe humand beings can have the courage to maintain their integrity.
Orwell is not the god of social/psych reality. Some of his characters are still fighting back against him.

"But consider this - If I am the Ministry of Truth, you must be the Ministry of Peace (creating the illusion of a war where ther isn't one.)"
No, I am not in the Book. But i think both those 2 abbots you know are greedy snouts and have hurt a lot of people. That's no illusion. Your job is the cover-up. Not war, just oppression.
Breaking people is not chilling. It is an obvious enemy and can be resisted. Masses being blindly manipulated, now thats chilling. Enjoy your work!

"Before we go on, we need to find love and plenty...."
Can't find that without integrity and grit.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[Stumblefist]

"Sorry stumble, you just sound so unhappy. But if your happy, that's cool."

Now i have the distinct impression that my postings are making you UNHAPPY else why should you be so "worried" about my unhappiness.
I'm happy that you are unhappy.

Anyway calling me or casting doubt on my happiness is STILL just an Ad Hominem.It is an "attack on the person" rather than honestly countering a person's arguments or presenting a point of view. It means you have "already lost" as per "highlander" or simply means you lost.

I try to make my argumentation as honest as possible to the best of my knowlege. So when i sign on again, i do genuinely worry... "Will i get trounced in logical argument? Can i be exposed as folish?" So far i am just vindicated.
Argumentation is somewhat ... somewhat.. like fighting... you must enjoy doing it. If you don't enjoy doing it, you are in the wrong game.

"Eating bitter doesn't mean that'a all you have to eat."
Absolutely true, on occassion i do enjoy my Hunan frog, Guangdong BBQ pork buns and the special sauce on the Beijing Cold Noodles.
But doing Martial Arts is not just putting up with bitter you have to love it or you cannot love the ART. It puts you into a deeper contact with life. Tatamis,porcelain pillows; hot, sweaty dirty trains,learn to love them and you'll see more, hear more and feel more comfortable.

"but your writing styles is so inflammatory."
That means effective and without swear-words and attempting to insult and manipulations etc.

"Enjoying negativity is not appropriate. One shouldn't hide from it certainly, but enjoy it? That's not right."
They told you that in school, right? There's a slight difference here bewteen listening to what SOUNDS right and doing and experiencing.
Negativity and negative emotions are different things. If you are sad you have no choice, it is a human process, turn on to it and stop resisting yourself. You'll find that in both buddhismand Taoism.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

You are a very concerned and conscientious person and I understand you but everyday isn't a bowl of cherries and there is an abundance of evil and underhanded goings on that,even, if we bring to the attention of people who can do something about a situation, i.e.the bad abbot, nothing will be done and, my Kung Fu Brother,the name of the game is called POLITICS. The reason nothing will be done is because everyone is involved in some way or another. So you need to let go and take one day at a time and hope for the best. Hopefully, the abbot will croak but someone like him will take his place and we start all over again. Peace my Brother.

Damia

[Stumblefist]

Thanks Damian
I agree. It's gotten to me.
Time to mellow out.

"Without water there would be no fish"

[GeneChing]

ok point-for-point, in order.

On Buddhism: I have not reached the level of extinction. So yes, I am wondering. You don't sound like you've reached nirvana either. If loving negative is important, what happens to hate? Isn't that an important emotion to acknowledge? Where does this put a figure like Yasutani Roshi?

Orwell: Orwell was about oppression of the human spirit and the oppressors win. Contrived or not, that's how the book ended.

Ministry of Peace: The mainland is your Malabar Front. You are as much minipax ans I am minitrue. But this is just for the arguments.

Love and Plenty: These are the other ministries of 1984. They can be found in the first few pages of that book. The only integrity and grit that is needed is to go down to the bookstore...

post two:
I was becoming unhappy about your unhappiness. As they taught me at Bodh Gaya -May all beings be happy. But now that your happy about my unhappiness, I'm happy that your happy.

My point about your happiness is just to get at the source of your arguments. If you truly believe all you post with the same fervor, there is certainly something you could do about it that is more productive then knocking my posts. Maybe you are involved politically in the real world - I don't know. Here in the forum world, I'm such a small fish. If we are disussing this for the exercise, sort of and iron-sharpen-iron thing, well, then that gives it a more intellectual tone. I'm just trying to read the emotion between your lines - so much of that is lost through our inadequate writing that I would give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not sure I agree about arguing for arguments sake, although you are right that this is a lot of what the forum is about. There are so many good fights to fight - ones that can be won or lost - that something as fleeting as forum posts seems to be the wrong place to spend too much energy. If this is all this is about, find another sparring partner for now. Perhaps we can spar more later, but I'm a little busy right now.

As for eating bitter - you don't have to love it. You just have to do it. If its really that bitter, you don't have the bandwidth for love. It's just do.

I do find your posts insulting and manipulative. You accuse me of all sort so atrocities. Maybe it's me. Any neutral parties wish to comment?

And lastly, you lost me on your last point. Enjoying negativity AND negative emotions is not right. You shouldn't hide OR resist, but you shouldn't enjoy. That's just unhealthy.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[Crimson Phoenix]

Dang, like, I was there in the "Gene I'm offended threat", and these two were having a brawl here behind my back :D

[joedoe]

For what it's worth, I think you are OK. I don't completely agree with what stumble had to say, but I think he is OK too. :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

[Silumkid]

A little late in the game, but I do think I need to interject something about the ending of 1984. Stumble, you and I and Gene and others here may have tasted enough bitter to withstand the "rat helmet". However, in this day and age, can you honestly tell me that the "average Joe (or Jane)" wouldn't sell you or me down the river quick as a flash when confronted with the threat of their worst fear?

Maybe you have enough faith in humanity to believe that, but personally, I wouldn't bet my next paycheck on it. More and more these days, I think I perceive people's morality becoming more and more selective...and that's proably my fallacy. But it still scares me sometimes.

Amitabha!

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

[xian_witch]

stumblefish, perhaps without smothering us in biasness, you can shed some light on how the actual wu shu (martial arts) community of songshan feels about the state of communism today, and depending, if there is a strong shaolin/resistance connection as in the historical past. are the monks and other spiritual leaders there involved in anykind of social democratic groups?
and uhh, thats ms. and i think i would take your offer to go get a trim at the barber, so long as she looks like maggie cheung? ;}

harmonize the forces of heaven, earth, and hell.

[HuangKaiVun]

Stumblefist, good luck on removing yourself from the Dark Side.

I hope that your sifu embraces you and teaches you that hatred is not the answer.

[Stumblefist]

Hello Huang,
Yes, well, i hope you too can run to your nearest Catholic Priest and be exorcised from the deep dark demons which are troubling you.
(now imagine a symbol representing sarcasm is posted here just in case you don't get it).
.........
Perhaps when you have time you might more clearly state what is your beef. I do seem to remember before in some other posts you seemed to be racially "sensitive" and didn't like me exposing problems racial problems in the world of martial arts.
-----
Perhaps you might tell me what is your experience with Evil and Hate? When i hear talk like this, it is usually from an "avoider" someone with little emotional experience. Just want everything somehhow to be "good".
How do you fell about Evil? Do you hate evil or love evil?. Do you hate the human function of hate or do you love hate? Do you see a difference between hate-crimes and hate-functioning?
If you love something strongly you must hate what destroys it, mustn't you? Do you understand how it works or do you just not feel anything?
I think you are confused.Hate and love are emotions and are useful for human beings to use in their lives. Good and Evil are constructive or destroying forces. Evil is mostly the result of NOT feeling.
I would say you probably can't think for yourself and need somebody in AUTHORITY to tell you the answers... let's see... a sifu? , yes that's it a SIFU will tell you the TRUTH. Isn't it wonderful to be absolved of the responsiblility of thinking for oneself?
If i expose or reveal evil, i am not the evil, i am only the insightful revealer. I am not resposnible for the unaware inheritance of racism in thought and culture, i just expose it. That and many other things.
But then, this is politics, isn't it? i.e. another ad hominenem. Attack stumblefist's character to deflect attention from what he is saying.
If you can figure out more clearly what's bugging you , don't hesitate to let me know.

[HuangKaiVun]

One must learn RESPECT before even THINKING about embarking on the study of martial arts, stumblefist.

Without respect, you can't learn the first thing about martial arts. YOU are the prime example of this.

[Stumblefist]

No Huang, You have to earn MY respect first and you haven't yet.
If you want to do that you must present some rational coherent argument about something.
There is no clear proof that YOU respect the martial arts or have in fact learned any. I counter your claim. I say that you are probably following fakes and phonies and racism and you do not follow the true martial ways of courage, honesty and effort. I freely admit to disrespecting fakes, phonies, liars, cheats, bullies, cowards and racists. Are you in one of those groups?
....
Are you able to articulate more clearly what is bugging you? You are very unclear and incoherent.
....
Allow me to articulate for you: You are saying because you don't like my point of view and probably wish to protect your ethnic attachments (racism - must be that? did i hit it?)therefore i don't respect martial arts and don't know any.
That is very irrational. But i think you are probably used to living irrationaly. Probably used to blindly following authority without discrimination.
I dispute your claim that you are the guardian as to what is the definition of "martial arts".
Whatever it is that you are trying to protect probably doesn't deserve respect. My words are the cold light of day and they will reveal the worms that you wish to protect and they will shrivel up in the daylight.
If you can ever come out of hiding in the closet, please feel free to come out and tell me what i have said bugs you.

"Without water there would be no fish"