chin na

[captain]

im told that chin na is not a system,but a series of grabs/anti grabs that are adopted in kung fu.
1,where did they come from initially then?
2,if many kung fu systems use them,[and therefore some
"moves" can travel across styles/geography] cant the
same be said of what went into making wck?
3,if i join a tai chi class,is that chin na?
4,during ww2,my grandad spent some time out by hong kong,
and he boxed,i shall ask him if he came upon anything MA
based while out there.we should all do likewise.ie,tap a
resource.

russell.

[EnterTheWhip]

,if many kung fu systems use them,[and therefore some"moves" can travel across styles/geography] cant the
same be said of what went into making wck?

yep. Wing Chun has many chin na techniques. For the mostpart, they've not been developed since WC is not considered as one that has chin na. There are other aspects that need to be considered such as the notion of breathing and conditioning in order to facilitate chin na, since chin na is meant to be effortless. And of course, as we all know, chi sau would train the timing aspect of chin na to facilitate the effortlessness.

[foolinthedeck]

blouse

[dezhen2001]

lol

dawood

[Alpha Dog]

What are you talking-guh aboot?

[foolinthedeck]

blouse blouse blouse blouse.

[captain]

no kidding!this morning on uk tv,i saw david carridine teaching
a chin na move to a kid who was being bullied.

[yuanfen]

Poor kid.

[GLW]

Basically, there are 4 major classes of techniques for Chinese Martial Arts:

Da - Striking
Ti - Kicking
Shuai - Throwing / Wrestling
Na - Locking/Grabbing

Every style should have some techniques of each but depending on the style, the number and order of importance varies. for example, Wing Chun places Da first...and depending on your teacher, you may have Ti or Shuai second with Na being fourth.

Northern styles place Ti - kicking - first.

Having said this, there are some styles that take Na pretty far- Eagle, Preying Mantis are two examples.

One thing to keep in mind is that the line between Shuai and Na gets murky at times. Another is that many types of Na (Qin Na or Chin Na) work on causing pain to the opponent. These particular techniques may not work on an opponent that is under the influence of drugs, crazy, etc...

Lastly, Qin Na requires an exactness that - without a large amount of practice - is unrealistic for use. Many techniques will only be effective if done exactly so...and the margin for error is less than 1/2 inch...

There is NOT a Qin Na style...it is a classification of techniques.

[yuanfen]

Good post GLW on classification.

With good structure and dynamics a style can a have
da, ti, shuai and na.

While da is primary in learning wc... with progress one can do all four because of wing chun structure, dynamics and mobility.

Correct on some of the limitations of na against a drugged person
or the problem of precision. The wing chun solution is really its versatility- it can shift and flow between da, ti, shuai and na
and different kinds of each.

The education of the wing chun practioner is the key- not imitating other styles but usinga coordinated wing chun
thinking center. Climb the wing chun mountain!