Fan Yu Tung Stance's Mainland & Hong Kong 7* Mantis.....

[B.Tunks]

Does anyone here have the date of the Luo photos? He was 30-31 when he got to Shanghai and about 44 when he got to Hong Kong.
Thanks.

b.t

[ninjaboy]

hey b.t.,

i like your articulate nature and would like very much if you could expand on this comment you made earlier in the post...

"or empty or bow step with the support thigh breaking parralell "

i don't think i get what you mean by 'breaking parralel'.

thanks for your time.

sincerely,
neil

[B.Tunks]

Ninja,

When I said breaking parallel (spelt it wong before, thats how articulate I am!) I meant that the thigh on the front leg in bow stance/ hill climbing, can not go below parallel to the ground. The same with the support leg in empty stance. The thigh must not be 'hung' from the knee, rather propped up by the knee. Though some very deep empty stances come to almost paralell (almost never in the case of older boxers), they never go deeper. The feeling should be one of sitting, ready to rise, not resisting collapse and straining to rise.
Though breaking parallel sounds very difficult, you can find the practice amongst some modern wushu practitioners.
b.t

[webbb82]

Hi,

BT, I THINK it was Autumn 1936.
If I have time today I will check for you.


J.

[B.Tunks]

Hi Jay,

Originally posted by webbb82

BT, I THINK it was Autumn 1936.
If I have time today I will check for you.
J.

thanks mate! If it does turn out to be right that makes him about 48 years old in these pictures. Very interesting. Look forward to more news.
thanks,
b.t

[ninjaboy]

thanks b.t., i follow your meaning now...

neil

[RAYNYSC]

Mantisben,
I believe you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I never said that FYT couldn't fight like the way we see Mantis done on the MainLand because of his weight. IMO I just feel that he did not have to resort to fighting in such low stances all the time.He could have easily used he size and weight against his oppponets. I am sure it may have crossed his mind to do so at times.

Don't judge PM fighter by how they do their forms in fact, don't judge ANY Martial Artist by how they do their forms. In fact some excellent fighters don't even do forms ( I'm thinking of Tito Ortiz, Mike Tyson, and Mohammad Ali )

I'm not sure about you but shadow boxing & focus mitt drills, can be considered to some extent forms training as well....

Anyhow the point is that not all the changes in 7* where made by LKY as some would have you believe & yes age does play a big roll in the way one trains as well as the way one fights.
It's a given that some people maybe able to do the things they did when they were young at an older age just look at Chan Poi
for a good example. The problem is the practicality of using such low stances that's all....


Peace

[mantisben]

Mantisben,
I believe you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I never said that FYT couldn't fight like the way we see Mantis done on the MainLand because of his weight. IMO I just feel that he did not have to resort to fighting in such low stances all the time.He could have easily used he size and weight against his oppponets. I am sure it may have crossed his mind to do so at times.

I apologize for misunderstanding you. As for using his size and weight, I am absolutely-positively couldn't-tell-me-otherwise-ively SURE that he used his size and weight against his opponents. Praying Mantis Kung Fu showed him how to USE his size and weight most effectively in combat. And I'll have to agree with you in that I don't think he fought using low stances all the time. However, I could be wrong.

I'm not sure about you but shadow boxing & focus mitt drills, can be considered to some extent forms training as well....

Shadow Boxing I would consider sort of like forms training. Still, Shadow boxing is more freestyle and changing than (as far as I know) a PM form.

Maybe its just me, but I can't see the similarites between focus mitt drills and a Kung-Fu form.

It's a given that some people maybe able to do the things they did when they were young at an older age just look at Chan Poi
for a good example.

Grand Master Chan Poi is in a class by himself. I hope that if I live to be as old as him, I'm in as great shape as he is.

The problem is the practicality of using such low stances that's all....

I've only seen a few wushu performances, but those folks appear to have many attributes of great fighters: Speed, flexibility, coordination, timing, control, power, focus... Now I don't know whether they use low stances when they fight, but they use low stances when they train, and the results are obviously positive.

As for the "Practicality" of low stances, I wouldn't doubt the effectiveness of a low stance in combat any more than I would doubt the effectiveness of someone STARTING the fight lying on the ground like some excellent UFC fighters. I used to doubt someone could defend themselves from a pre-fighting posture of lying on the ground, then along came the UFC fighters. I don't doubt it anymore.

I also used to doubt that someone could defend themselves effectively if they couldn't SEE who they were fighting with. Then I saw some Wing-Chun practicioners practicing blind-folded Chi-Sau. I don't doubt that anymore either.

Can someone defend themselves effectively while punching and kicking from a low stance? I wouldn't doubt it.

One thing for sure is that if you DON'T train for combat using low stances, being blind-folded, or lying on the ground, you WON'T be able to effectively defend yourself using low stances, being blind-folded, or lying on the ground.

As for me, I can't fight from low stances, being blind-folded...

Respectfully,

MantisBen

[Brad]

Now I don't know whether they use low stances when they fight, but they use low stances when they train, and the results are obviously positive.

I find training with low stances to be pretty helpful, but you've got to be extra careful to make sure your alignment isn't off otherwise you risk damaging your knees. I think having everything properly aligned is more important than depth. I found out the hard way

[puja]

Ya, IMO alignment is pretty important. If you have low stances but your body isn't aligned properly not only you risk damaging your knees (or other parts of your body) but you lack stability, too. Low stances usually imply more stability but if they come with improper alignment one looses his structure and gets more unstable than doing a slightly higher stance with proper structure.

best regards,

puja

[yu shan]

It would be very good to see Shifu Tunks post here again... JMO!

Proper alignment is crucial. Big differance between our southern brothers.

[FEELERSTRIKE]

Wasn't FXD on old man when he taught LGY ? wouldnt that have an effect on stance hight ? If LGY was in his forties when the Beng Bu photos where taken and his stance was high , then wasnt FXD in his approx 70's when he taught LGY ? Just a thought .

[phoenixdog]

When I think of a big framed CMA fighter,I think of Kumar Frantzis.As much as I hate to admit it,I saw him challenged by a TKD fighter in Denver and Kumar destroyed him using very low stances from his pa kua.He also could do mantis very well.