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Thread: Somethin i wrote up for anti-grapplin folks

  1. #46
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    Let's try this again...

    "MMA Is NOT brutal, it seeks to submitt. (sic)"

    should be

    "In a sport context like UFC or Pride, MMA is not seeking to kill the opponent and the rules reflect this by allowing for referree stoppage and defeat by submission. This in no way reflects upon the danger posed by certain techniques that are legal in some MMA events, such as kneeing the head, attacking a downed opponent from a standing position, or locks and holds that are capable of breaking limbs when cranked."

    Sheesh.
    All my fight strategy is based on deliberately injuring my opponents. -
    Crippled Avenger

    "It is the same in all wars; the soldiers do the fighting, the journalists do the shouting, and no true patriot ever get near a front-line trench, except on the briefest of propoganda visits...Perhaps when the next great war comes we may see that sight unprecendented in all history, a jingo with a bullet-hole in him."

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  2. #47
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    MP, you know that if we kungfu guys were allowed in the ring we would kill you grappling types. I mean look at UFC, er Pride. Well maybe not Pride...but anyway us striking types would destroy you guys because you don't train to kill and you know it.



    hmmmm, Royal Dragon, I can see your point. I really can but comparing what they do in competitions to what anyone else does in competitions is sort of wierd. Kungfu guys pull their punches, I have yet to see a kungfu tournemant where everything goes, including killing. We have our own set of rules that restricts us.
    I don't know, maybe I am missing the point or something. Are you saying specifically that Kungfu groundfighting is more dangerous then MMA groundfighting because of the different emphasis? Would you say that in the street kungfu has an edge over MMA type grappling because of this?
    _______________
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  3. #48
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    I'm exposing cerian hypocrisis here (or trying to) So far only one guy got it.
    I think most people get what you are trying to say, and are simply saying that you are incorrect. In fact, almost everything you are saying about MMAs lack of brutality can be turned right around on you.

  4. #49
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    If you enter a NHB event you most certainly can slam your knee into someone's rib cage repeatedly until it breaks. It's just that the other guy is doing stuff too, and opportunities for repeated clean hits to the same target don't just present themselves on silver platters. If you can control the guy to the point that he can't defend against that type of repeated attack, they tend to stop it (tap or ref).

    The reason I chimed in is not because I have loyalty to MMA but to what it represents. I believe that type of "reality" fighting is important. Kung Fu can too easily turn into a "my technique is too deadly to use" debate. As far as eagle claw techniques and the like, to apply those you have already entered the guys gate, at that point you can pinch him in the neck or just deliver a hammer blow ... up to you. But it's in the getting there. That's where I think these venues shine. You can face a trained fighter who is resisting full out and won't be stopped because you lightly tapped his gi from 3 feet away.

    I'm not big into titles anymore. How you gain and use leverage, body alignement, power source and delivery, methodology-- this is what I care about. What ya call it doesn't matter. In the end it will all be MMA under various names. Who can afford not to evolve?

  5. #50
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    Good post EF.

  6. #51
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    Are you saying specifically that Kungfu groundfighting is more dangerous then MMA groundfighting because of the different emphasis? Would you say that in the street kungfu has an edge over MMA type grappling because of this?

    Reply]
    To a certian extent yes, as I do believe that, but my position today is really much simpler than that. Basically I'm saying that MMA Ground figting is not really as brutal as they like to make it out to be because the emphisis is not on cripiling, maiming or killiing the opponent, it's on useing Pain compliance to force a submission and a tap. My point is not all that complicted really, if you sit and think about it. I really don't see how it turned into this huge thread jacking deal.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  7. #52
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    You used to make some really insightful posts. When did you turn into an idiot?
    MP has grabbed the correct by the ankles and is shaking him down for lunch money!

  8. #53
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    Originally posted by Royal Dragon
    Then your entire emphasis and intent are focused on something you've never actually done. And probably never will.

    Reply]
    Hmmm, I'm not going to comment on the never done part, but lets just say if I was threatened, especially by a home invader, the guy would be pulling chuncks of his right rib out of his left lung. That's assuming Terri didn't shoot'em first.
    C'mon. You can tell me.

    Having seen a guy get his arm broken by a "submission" in Pride, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that an MMA type lacks the intent necessary to do something like that.

    Granted, the guy didn't mean to break his opponent's arm. He meant to get a lock and make the guy submit. But it's the nature of the lock that the opponent's arm could readily be broken if that were the intent.

    So generally arms don't get broken in MMA for much the same reason that people don't walk out of a kung fu class "pulling chunks of rib out of their lungs." The person performing the technique took it to a point and not beyond. But if you maintain that you could take it beyond that point should the need arise, then logically you have to accept that the submission expert could too. That is, if logic's your thing.


    Stuart B.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  9. #54
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    RD - what if I said they can be just as brutal or just as dangerous because they train so much more on the ground?
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  10. #55
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    Originally posted by ewallace

    I think most people get what you are trying to say, and are simply saying that you are incorrect. In fact, almost everything you are saying about MMAs lack of brutality can be turned right around on you.
    Amen. Lack of accord doesn't mean lack of comprehension.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  11. #56
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    Basically I'm saying that MMA Ground figting is not really as brutal as they like to make it out to be because the emphisis is not on cripiling, maiming or killiing the opponent, it's on useing Pain compliance to force a submission and a tap.
    And the "Kung Fu" groundfighting you spoke of emphasizes assuming that injuries will occur and that you will have those opportunities. It's all speculation.

  12. #57
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    If you enter a NHB event you most certainly can slam your knee into someone's rib cage repeatedly until it breaks.

    Reply]
    But you can't SLAM him down on the mat and follow that momentum into the rib crushing knee drop because slamming is illegal, thearfore it's not really traied, and consequently the techniques that follow that momentum into a cripeling fight ending manevure are not even thought about except maybe in passing. See, the thorw and the momentum set up and facillitate the knee drop. It's not just your full weigth on the lower and weakest part of the ribs, it that PLUS the momentum set up by the throw, Which is illegal because it basically power slams the opponent into the ground.

    [i]
    It's just that the other guy is doing stuff too, and opportunities for repeated clean hits to the same target don't just present themselves on silver platters.

    Reply]
    No, but if you grab him by the head, and ass, and pick him up, and slam him down and then fall ad hard as you can so your knee lands on the lowe rib wiht ful weight encanced by the moemntum of the drop and throw, your going to crush his rib cage in one single shot. That's like placeing 240 (my current weight) MOVING against a rather weak part of the human annatomy. He's going to be too stuned by tat to do jack in defecse against follow ups designed to crush more ribs.

    If you can control the guy to the point that he can't defend against that type of repeated attack, they tend to stop it

    Reply]
    Sure, but now we are talking about anti take down skills. Which strangely enough puts us back on the orginal topic.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  13. #58
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    And the "Kung Fu" groundfighting you spoke of emphasizes assuming that injuries will occur and that you will have those opportunities. It's all speculation.

    Reply]
    Sure, just like it's all speculation that if I took a baseball bat and hit you in the side of the head with a home run swing that you'd probably die from your head caveing in.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  14. #59
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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If I were to fight in the MMA, and slam a guy down on the mat,
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Slams are legal in ALL MMA events.
    I'm sorry, which part of this did you not get?

    Reading for comprehension.

    FWIW, I understand you're point, you're just WAY wrong.
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

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    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  15. #60
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    Here, let me try again, just in case you decide to miss it repeatedly.

    Slamming is legal in MMA. Slamming is legal in MMA. Slamming is legal in MMA....
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

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