Captain Dr John Painter PhD, ND, etc, etc

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Just to be clear, and absolutely no ill intentions.. the "moniker" is one given to me by a Taoist senior monk, one of my mentors.. Tzu-Jan = spontaneous, of itself so.. Li = random order, like the grain in wood, or the veins in leaves.. a loosely translated reference to "nature's way".. but, to contact me:

Bob Waers
Extreme Harmony Martial Arts Academy
6562 University Blvd.
Orlando, Florida
extremeharmony.com or .biz (school)
Or: use the PM (private Message) option to contact me personally

I do not intend to hide behind a juvenile moniker, i was honored that my mentor thought well enough of me to give me a name with such class.. as for Mr. Painter, i respect his openess, his stated intentions, and his committment to act acordingly.. I would be honored to experience his instruction in person, and.. if he's ever in the area, i will do so..

Again, this has no ill-intended meanings, just a clear statement of my name and how to contact me.. (and, an invitation to visit my school advertising pays off)..

Be well...

[Three Harmonies]

TaiChiBob
I am sorry, that comment was not meant to be thrown around loosely. Your posts and comments were respectful and thought provoking. It just seemed like one or two individuals were trying their hardest to get Mr Painter to all of the sudden say, "Yeah you punks are right Iam a joke!" I just get tired of these forums being wasted on stupid intentions, immature accusations, and egomaniacs talking sh!t. We should all being using this forum to share info, not to debunk anyone. Those that are frauds will not last.
So my apologies to anyone that does nto apply, my rant was not aimed at you. Those who are doing this....please chill, and leave the ego at the door! It will make everyone better, trust me!

Thank you
Jake

[Ray Pina]

I can only speak for myself, and I can say with a clear conscious that I have no ill intent for Mr. Painter. But though he is somewhat of a martial arts celebratey, I don't think that automatically frees him of honest questions when it comes to certain claims, like projecting force out of ones body across a distance, no touch knock outs, or even the idea that Ba Gua walking provides some advantage when bullets start flying (many folks have been injured while bouncing or body guarding but haven't developed these abilities).

I also found it interesting to see him walking the circle with heavy weights in his hand, and his walking in general appears to be different than the standard.

In general, I am open to man's great potential. And just because someone does something different than the majority, that doesn't turn me off either. I am generally very interested in martial arts and just like to know the why about things, and, even though its not incredibly important, the from where.

Thats all on my end. And I'm glad I signed off with my name early in this thread before the moniker accusations got slinged
.... though even posting a name doesn't guarantee its a real name, and even if it is, the distances provided bythe web reduce their value anyway

[Samurai Jack]

For the record, I held Mr. Painter's skills in high regard, as evidenced by my previous posts. I've even used photographs of him in posts to illustrate technical points, since he obviously demonstrates good technique.

On the other hand, I take serious issue when people mis-represent themselves to the public with self-agrandizing nonsense titles. I have friends fighting in Iraq who have earned thier military rank by risking thier lives for thier country. I also have an uncle who spent ten years of hard work and grueling sixteen hour day internships to earn the title Doctor. It is disappointing to see someone simply "assign" themselves such titles and rank in order to decieve the public for marketing purposes.

For those of you who are clearly not in the know, it is really not a big deal to be hired to teach a small seminar or in-service to law enforcement personell. We have preivate contractors who are invited to give us trainings all the time. I can tell you one thing for certain, if someone offers us a training while using a false military rank, such as Mr. Painter has done, he will not be invited for further training. The reason? Police officers don't tend to respect civilians who lie about thier qualifications.

I'm pretty disappointed since Mr. Painter obviously has developed some legitimate skills, yet won't even reveal where they came from. Up until now, I was one of his supporters.

[dantes]

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=+F...kqgfgk/*-http%

evolution fist, wai gong training is used by alot of of bagau masters, the stone sphere above demonstrates this.this is fu zhensong, creator of fu bagua

[bamboo_ leaf]

Do you care more about the history or the skill, many teachers do not care to share their teachers names or history yet have very high level skills.

[Baji Brad]

I think there's a difference between not wanting to share history, and lying about your history. Delibrately lying about your personal background makes you a fraud regardless of your skill, and some people would have a problem giving money to someone they know is a criminal. I'm not saying Painter is guiltey or innocent of this, but there is a difference between what people are saying he's doing(doctoring photos and using false credentials) and just being tight lipped. But while I think exposing fraud is a good thing, it's not enough just to talk about it on the internet. Here in America, someone is innocent until proven guilty and most of us aren't expert enough in Bagua, Bagua history, military rank, or photography to make a really educated opinion on the acusations being leveled at John Painter. The people that think they're "in the know" on this issue need to inform the proper authorities too.

Samurai Jack:
If he's using false military rank, isn't there some higher authority that you could report him too? I'd think our government would have a problem with someone teaching government programs with false credentials.

[Buddy]

"I think there's a difference between not wanting to share history, and lying about your history. Delibrately lying about your personal background makes you a fraud regardless of your skill, and some people would have a problem giving money to someone they know is a criminal."

Well, lying is not a prosecutable offense in my state, and good thing too, the woods are filled with Kennedys. But lets look at this further. Who invented Taiji? Zhang Sanfeng? That's what some would have us believe. How about Xingyi? Yueh Fei? C'mon. How about Hung gar? Was it one the legendary Five Ancestors of Shaolin? Or was just some regular guy. My money is on regular, albeit very talented guys. Where does Mr. Painter fit in here? Truthfully it doesn't matter to me and nor should it to you if you are not his student. If one of them cares if it was Frank Li's family or some regular, albeit talented guy named John that made it up it's up to them. If you have an issue Arlington Texas isn't that difficult to find. Step up or shut up.

[Samurai Jack]

Unfortunately, most of the public won't bother to do any digging on Painter, so his misleading titles will bring a sense of legitamacy to what he's marketing. Since he is willing to admit that his rank and titles are meaningless, as far as I can tell he isn't breaking any laws. As he said before, any publicity he gets whether negative or positive, will be good for him, since it'll get his name out there. He's a smart guy. Most con-men are.

[Buddy]

As far as you can tell? Who gives a rats patoot what you can tell Jack? Painter is out there in the public. You won't find him hard to find. Con man is a harsh phrase. Go see him and back up your mouth.

My point is you know nothing about him beyond what you read and hear. Step up or shut up.

[MonkeySlap Too]

What Buddy said.

[Samurai Jack]

Originally posted by Buddy
My point is you know nothing about him beyond what you read and hear.

That's not entirely accurate, Buddy. Most of what I know of him has come straight from his mouth, or he typed it himself. Harsh or not, the guy's misrepresenting himself.

Originally posted by Buddy
Who gives a rats patoot what you can tell Jack?

The quote you seem to be refering to was "Since he is willing to admit that his rank and titles are meaningless, as far as I can tell he isn't breaking any laws." Which was a response to Baji Brad's question concerning the legalities of falsely representing oneself as a military officer. If you're having difficulty following the conversation you might think about staying out of it.

Originally posted by Buddy
Step up or shut up.

This is precisely what Painter has been invited to do; explain himself, and his actions on a public forum, so there's no confusion. I've "stepped up" and asked him some legitimate questions. If his doctorate and P.h.d.s (etc. etc.) were aquired at accredited universities, why won't he just say so? If he learned Pa Kua from some guy in a garage, or a mystical MA master, why wouldn't he just say so? If he's really the only "Honorary Texas Ranger" in the history of the United States, why dosen't he just explain how this came to be? If his claims are true, there should be no problem here at all.

[SPJ]

1) Wing Chun linage fights.

Why don't they call themself styles and identify the common root?

Such as Leung's style WC, or Yip Man- Bruce Lee- JKD, Fo Shan Peng Nam Nei Jia WC, etc.

2) Theories of Tai Ji started earlier. But many placed Zhang San Feng as the originator. And yet everybody knows that Chen Tai Ji was from general Chen Wang Ting in the mid 1600's. Chen Tai Ji is the practice. There are also Wu Dang Tai Ji Quan, even Shaolin has some similar ideas of practices. Some times it is also called Wu Ji Quan. Incidentally, Wu Mu Quan was created by General Yuet Fei to train solidiers to fight Jing and maybe Mongols. Wu Mu Quan is also called Wu Ji Quan.

3) Xing Yi was used in the army to hit via the armor chest or protective gear. Most think it was created by some one in Shan Xi. If it is from Yuet Fei, I am not sure. However, I used to recite the theorum of Xing Yi written by general Yuet Fei.

[Buddy]

"That's not entirely accurate, Buddy. Most of what I know of him has come straight from his mouth, or he typed it himself. Harsh or not, the guy's misrepresenting himself."

B ull****. Actually you've heard nothing come str8 from his mouth right? If so when? And when did you step up and tell him?

"If you're having difficulty following the conversation you might think about staying out of it."

Ah, I see. Now you want to insult me? Please feel free to come and visit me. I have no trouble following your troll. So far you're dodging the issue. Step up.

"This is precisely what Painter has been invited to do; explain himself, and his actions on a public forum, so there's no confusion. I've "stepped up" and asked him some legitimate questions."

No, you've spit up what everyone else has digested. What gives you the right to ask? Step up.

"If his claims are true, there should be no problem here at all."

Fair enough. Now have the balls to ask him in person. If your aim is true you should have no problem here at all.

[Samurai Jack]

BWAHHH HA Ha ha! Buddy, I was giving you the benifit of the doubt here, but your posts are degenerating into nonesense. Are you actually inviting me to travel across country to fight you? I'm sure that will prove that Painter isn't lying. I'm also sure that these lame a$$ challenges I see people issuing around here aren't worth the electricity used to send them.

At any rate, anyone has the right to ask anybody anything on a public board. You are expected to keep it relatively clean, however. You are even free to make a fool of yourself, which unfortunately appears to be the option you've taken.

Cool off Bud. We can agree to disagree.