Captain Dr John Painter PhD, ND, etc, etc

[The Willow Sword]

Actually Willow, he is just adding different ba gua footwork and palm changes into his routine, which is common and not high level ba gua stuff. For example the guy used toe in-toe out stepping and half stepping as well as a little 4 corners to boot. I don't know the guy, and don't know his claims, but from that low quality vid, it looks like he was trained properly.

uhhh actually Ralphie his stepping is half a$$ed,,bagua stepping is not heel to toe and look at his posture. he is practically coming up off the ground. doesnt look like he has any root whatsoever. if you are going to post a vid on your work it had better be of better quality and also you are showing this to possible students. if i were a beginner looking for a school and i came across that vid i would pass on it. Not that you have to show anything real spectatcular but you have to at least show something better than what Painter is trying to show in that vid.

sorry ralphie i disagree with you,,the vid is crap.

[Lao_Peng_You]

Willow,

As a friendly debate, and not to criticize, I think you're closing yourself off to the wider spectrum of Ba Gua. There is, as I know it, Serpent Stepping, which is where you place the foot down and slide as you advance. However, there is also lion stepping, which is where you roll from heal to toe, I found this link which shows this somewhat: http://www.blacktaoist.com/Original%...0Ba%20Gua.html i don't know these folks either, but you mentioned them in an earlier post, so I suspect you respect them.

There are more stepping patterns than just walking in a circle in ba gua. For example, advancing or retreating in ba gua usually employs the use of a half step with the lead leg (advancing) or the rear leg (retreating) before taking a full step. The jpeg this guy uses does suck, and I too can't tell if he is not good or the vid is of so low quality that you can't get a good feel for what he is trying to do. However, he is employing a full range of common ba gua stepping techniques.

Again, just as a point, what is your familiarity with these types of things?

[The Willow Sword]

i am not closing myself off to the "wider spectrum" of bagua. im just closing myself off to john painters bagua.

yes i am all too familiar with black taoists web site.

the snake stepping is the stepping that i mainly like to do when walking the circle. but i am more of a hsing i person than bagua,,but i have learned over the years the bagua principles and i know that it is not just the walking the circle.
my familiarity with these things are always questioned by people here because i was a former SD disciple and teacher. but prior to SD and even during i still held fast to the principles taught to me by my former teacher Master nessen.(who has studied for years in hsing i bagua and taichi) he was a former disciple of dr john winglock ng. but i have no association with that school as i live in texas.

many respects,, TWS

[Golden Arms]

Hehehe..good attitude Philbert..that part about the bag boy Billy Bob is classic Honesty is good, but many times the art is just as much a part of the student as it was their teacher..so if the student dug hard and studied a lot, they get things that even their teacher would not have to tell or show them.

[count]

I agree and than some with Lao_Peng_You. There are as many stepping methods in bagua as there are people. What method of bagua was that they teach through Shaolin Do anyway? Seems to me that seeing all the flack and bad mouthing Shaolin Do takes, you would'nt be so quick to bash Painter. I assume you have actually experienced his bagua methods first hand? If not, it would be wrong to make assumptions based on that quicky .avi. Makes more sense for people to judge these kind of things through contact and not by what other people think.

[The Willow Sword]

i find it contradictory that one cannot have an opinion and the other can based on what school they have gone to and where else they have learned. i watched the vid,,its crap(actually thats the only thing that i am "bashing". the vid sucks ,,thats my opinion. i dont doubt that Painter is an accomplished bagua teacher but the vid doesnt really show that, IN MY OPINION. i base it on what i have learned to be not crap. and since you havent been keeping up with current events,Count, i am no longer a part of the sd organization. havent been for over two years now. so dont lump me in with them anymore.

yes yes yes there are many stepping variations in bagua,,but only a few that really work, in my opinion. snake stepping being one of the few that , IN MY OPINION BASED ON WHAT I HAVE LEARNED, Works. it keeps you rooted as does the deer stepping(from 5 animal frolics).

soon i will post an mpeg of the stuff that i have been working on. it will show you the type of internal stuff that i have been into. i dont claim mastery but i do know some things. then you can make your opinions and i can be here to talk about them.

[count]

I'm pretty up to date on the "current events" Just because I don't participate in the shaolin Do bashing doesn't mean I haven't seen your posts here and on other forums on the issues.

Actually I agree with you that finding out what works for YOU is the first step at understanding bagua. But I wouldn't presume to judge any video you post on the internet as an example of what you know or don't know. It only shows what you want to show.

On the other hand, if you showed me something in person and it worked for me the same as it worked for you, I would agree that you were going in the right direction. I would be glad to say so on a public bulletin board. Otherwise, I would just keep my opinions to myself.

[The Willow Sword]

COUNT is THE authority on bagua here. well your highness. i wouldnt presume to show YOU anything. that would be just wasting both our times.

[count]

Not as much of a waste of time as this discussion. That's all that was happening here. An exchange of contrary opinions. Some ideas about footwork in bagua. If you prefer the Painter bashing than continue to say whatever you want. I'm done!

[Kymus]

Originally posted by ewallace
I can move people without touching them. Pretty much anyone with a rock and good aim can as well.

[Kymus]

Originally posted by ewallace
I can move people without touching them. Pretty much anyone with a rock and good aim can as well.

Or a good ****...

[Kymus]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Yeah Dale that be the one.

Can we all say horse sh!t together. I wonder if Yoda taught him that trick. The amount of people who believe in mystical martial nonsense is staggering.

You obviously know nothing about Chi Kung

[Kymus]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword


uhhh actually Ralphie his stepping is half a$$ed,,bagua stepping is not heel to toe and look at his posture. he is practically coming up off the ground. doesnt look like he has any root whatsoever. if you are going to post a vid on your work it had better be of better quality and also you are showing this to possible students. if i were a beginner looking for a school and i came across that vid i would pass on it. Not that you have to show anything real spectatcular but you have to at least show something better than what Painter is trying to show in that vid.

sorry ralphie i disagree with you,,the vid is crap.

For some reason I can't view the vid, but it sounds like he's doing tiger stepping. In Jiu Long Ba Gua, I believe there is Tiger, Dragon, and Pheonix stepping.

[Kymus]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
i find it contradictory that one cannot have an opinion and the other can based on what school they have gone to and where else they have learned. i watched the vid,,its crap(actually thats the only thing that i am "bashing". the vid sucks ,,thats my opinion. i dont doubt that Painter is an accomplished bagua teacher but the vid doesnt really show that, IN MY OPINION. i base it on what i have learned to be not crap. and since you havent been keeping up with current events,Count, i am no longer a part of the sd organization. havent been for over two years now. so dont lump me in with them anymore.

yes yes yes there are many stepping variations in bagua,,but only a few that really work, in my opinion. snake stepping being one of the few that , IN MY OPINION BASED ON WHAT I HAVE LEARNED, Works. it keeps you rooted as does the deer stepping(from 5 animal frolics).

soon i will post an mpeg of the stuff that i have been working on. it will show you the type of internal stuff that i have been into. i dont claim mastery but i do know some things. then you can make your opinions and i can be here to talk about them.

2 things: 1: you should of speciiified that you were just speaking about the video, and did not mean anything about Dr.painter himself. Secondly, I think that part of the reason why Dr. Painter is so defended here is because is he well known for his skill. Just like Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming and Helen Liang. If it were someone that was lesser known, it may be different. What's more is that if something is more unanimous (like opinions on Shoalin Do for example), it's a little more acceptable to the general populace here.

[jon]

Just as an opinion from another Bagua practioner (albiet lower level) I honestly think the walking is good.
Its nothing particualy spectacular or special but its also quite well executed and he obviously has good control over his body.
Sure he doesnt step the same way exactly that we do in my linage but thats also to be expected. Most Bagua linages seem to have a slightly different interpretation depending on what there trying to achieve at the time with the 'walk'.
To my knowledge the heel toe stepping is a perfectly legit stepping method, its not one i employ but ive certainly seen it before. I could be mistaken but i believe Li Zi Ming used this step reguarly and i would have a hard time listening to anyone claim his stuff was not legit.

I really feel sorry for Dr Painter, when ever his name comes up people start talking about how what he does is not 'legit', then in the same sentence always make a comment about the fact that he can still apply it.


After all the fuss and what not about Dr Painter, even looking at a simple video of the guy circle walking its still pretty obvious he has had some good training and has a good handle on his choosen methods.



Im no expert but to me he looked good, Its nice to see someone with skill enjoying what they do.