My experience in going to the ground in a real fight and some very common street fighter techniques

[Tru-MA]

How many people here honestly go to the ground in a real fight (I'm not limiting it to street fights here, I'm taking about anywhere at anytime)? I find that from my experience, it's really only one of those last-resort type things where you only do it if you have to (i.e. opponent
drags you down with him when you knock him down or issue a takedown/throw and starts wrestling with you or if he knocks you down and gets on top of you).
Please realize that this is from my own experience, your opinions may be different because
of the types of people you fought or the areas that you live in. I'm just interested in knowing people's opinions.
Where I live, it seems that in a real fight if one person knocks another down, he/she starts stomping on the other's body. Most of the fights here are stand-up, almost no ground fights...and that's surprising ( I live in Orange County). I thought that since there are grappling schools and bjj schools here there'd be more ground fights. But I realized why going to the ground isn't so smart unless you HAVE to...for one thing,
you're left open to stompings by the other guy's cohorts. At least, it's easier to defend yourself
when you're standing up and using strikes and not on the ground wrestling with your opponent (I know
that BJJ has strikes from the ground because I read the thread about the guy that used it to defend against 2 attackers, but I'm just saying this from my own experience). Actually, today, when I went around asking questions to guys that saw and have been in real fights, I've noticed that. That is the reason I view ground grappling the way I do. It's because I find that most of the time I also have to deal with the guy's homies. By the way, I've only seen one fight where the combatants actually wrestled on the ground. Their friends started kicking them (by this I mean that one person's friends kicked the opponent, and vice-versa). Did I mention that the
fighters were 14-year-old girls? Heh. It was quite funny the way that one started. First some arguing, then some pushing and shoving, and one ended up on the ground and the other when down and
they clobbered and eye-gouged eachother while they
were wrestling. I saw about 95% of that fight (I left the scene when people came to break it up).
By the way, here are techniques that I see that are commonly used here:
1. jab
2. cross
3. hook
4. uppercut
5. tackle
6. knee strike
7. stomp kick
8. pushing (yeah, I know, this isn't really
a fighting technique per se, but I felt I had to add it in because it seems to start plenty of fights around here)
Basically, most of the fights seem to be full of
jab-cross, or just a quick jab or hook punch, and if they get close enough to grapple, they'll grab you and throw knee strikes. You get knocked down,
you get stomped upon. As for the tackle, one guy
used it extensively in fights. I heard that he used it against a guy that threw a bunch of punches, bowled him over, and got him in a choke hold, ready to snap his neck. He was about to, too. Want to hear the scary part? This happened at the high school that I go to. That guy was lucky that a teacher happened to be there right before he ended up with a broken neck. Just recently, today, I heard about a fight, and that's
what influenced me to post this topic (well that and after seeing so many fights where people get kicked upon when they get knocked down). One person knocked the other over and started stomping
on that person's head, full power. While wearing cleats on the shoes. Ouch. Basically, if you're going to fight from the ground around here, it'd be a good idea to practice plenty of counters to stomp kicks [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] What about you guys, huh? How often do real fights end up with ground fighting where you live and from your experience?
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

[jojitsu27]

I remember the first bloody fight I saw, I'm not talking those boyhood scraps, but a full-out bloody mess.
I was a freshman in highschool and I saw to seniors get in a fight. I am from Oklahoma, and in case you don't know this is wrestling country.
We have produced more Olympic gold medalists in wrestling than any other state, and every kid grows up wrestling.
Anyway, This senior on the wrestling team gets in a fight with a football player over a girl.
The football player punched the wrestler in the face and broke his nose and sent blood everywhere!
The wrestler responded by shaking it off and then shooting in and maneuvering behind the football player where he picks him up from the waist, turns him upside down, and dumps him straight on his head into the marble flooring of the school hallway.
The guys head split open instantly and blood pooled out all over the marble while the football player laid there unconsciouse.
It was pretty scarry, needless to say. The wrestler was taken to jail, and I think he spend about a year in jeuvenile jail and never ended up graduating from school.
The football player was retarded after that and had to go to a special school.
But anyway, I guess it all depends on where you are from. Here in Oklahoma you ****ed better know how to grapple, because any old joe you get into it with in a bar could have been wrestling his whole life, and about 99% of all the street fights here go straight to the ground.....on purpose.
-jojitsu27

[origenx]

ouch.

[jimmy23]

ok call me a jerk but for some evil reason,when you siad the football player was retarded for thr the rest of his life,my first thought was "arent most football players already retarded?".sorry,manIm a jerk,had to say it though

[8stepsifu]

That must have been horrible to watch. I agree, no only OK, but the whole midwest and most of the country is "Wrestling Country" what other MA is taught in most high schools and elementary schools?

8Step Sifu

[Kong Jianshen]

I have to agree with the orginal story about not wanting to go to the ground. Not in a real streetfight! Just think about it all he has to use is minimal force and your head can be caught between his blow and the floor! His buddys will stomp you! his girlfriend! His brother! heh no way. There is glass, rocks, sticks, cement, its limitless. Besides if u find out u MUST run.. well have fun standing up! I must say learning it is important too. Because if just END up there its best to know how to hold your own. But part of being a good stand up fighter is NOT allowing them to shoot in and take u down. Force them where u want them. My opponent fights my fight.

Always seeking to learn,
Kong Jianshen
Humble disciple of the ancient Boxing Arts

[Rolling Elbow]

Ground is a last resort for me.., realistically i train it for the times i may end up there. It is not however, ny primary goal..i prefer to hit and get the opponent down and then follow up with stomps or breaks..

We do (and the russians do allot of this too) allot of kick and stomp evasion from the ground for incoming kicks to the head and body so i am quite comfortable being knocked down and dealing with these types of attacks..then again it is taijutsu and usually i am beyond bragging but this sytems is truly amazing and IS complete despite what many people think..it all depends on the teacher.
lat

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[Master Po]

I agree with the original post for the most
part. I just wanted to add a few things.

First if you were to have someone, maybe a friend of a friend, start trouble with you after having a few too many drinks... I would rather not eye jab-head butt-knee to the groin right off the bat. I think is shows a great deal of skill to take the "attacker" down and control him with pain or render him unconcious but unharmed with a choke. Its the gentle side of my martial arts (jui-jitsu means jentle art) Again this is not a assault but it is a situation that might come up. (OK I know I need new friends)

Also I must say that BJJ is one of the most fun and addicting art I have had the pleasure of practicing. The chess match that takes place between two good jiu-jitsu guys is amasing!!! One of the reasons I train so much BJJ is its so darn fun.

Anyway in a life or death attack in an alley/bar/whatever I plan on my attacker being the only guy on the ground. Then again you never know so its good to have plan B.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Yeah, I went right to the ground once, but that was to pull someone off a buddy of mine. And since the attackers buddies were all broken on the ground or had fled, I felt safe doing it. I nearly got my eye gouged out for the trouble, it wasn't until I broke something on him that his thumb left my eye.

On the other hand, I have fought some dangerous wrestlers. I think my Shuai Chiao skills kept them from taking me down, but I knew throwing them wasn't the answer unless I had a flawless throw and dropped them on thier head. I resolved in one 'real' fight to striking 'soft spots' like the eyes and throat. It was a real chess game, and I was almost taken down several times. Once he was suitably softened up, a lock and throw was inevitable. Nontheless, victory was not a foregone conclusion - straight grappling, this guy probably would have got me, but he lacked a stand up game - giving me the fight.

I have also trained some wrestlers in martial arts and I learned as much as they did by taking them out on the floor and wrestling according to thier rules.

Just as every practitioner needs to quantify his game and train for everything, so too should every teacher be willing to walk into uncomfortabloe new territory where you may not win. After all, isn't that what a fight is?

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Paul DiMarino]

I've gotten in a few scraps in my day. Some of them went to the ground, some didn't. Most of the fights I got into started face-to-face, so fists, knees, elbows, and heads were the first thing flying at you from all angles. It's not like you actually squared off against each other and formed some sort of strategy. I really can't speak of ground fightings effectiveness in my street fights because I haven't been in a fight since I started learning BJJ. A solid close range system would be my preference in teh street though.

[reemul]

All to often lately I've seen people get caught up in the fad of BJJ. All to often people want to
study "the best" or "most effective" martial arts. Which is crap. If you rely on grappling to beat a grappler, whoever knows the most counters
has shih, or strategic advantage. Whereas boxing is more unpredictable and harder to counter.
Thus the arguments for learning multiple systems is that it will make you more adaptable to change.
Which is also incorrect. Moving from one form to another is still form and the "skilled commander"
will eventually expose your weaknesses for there will be many. Master Sun says: appear to have form without having form. (and no, Bruce Lee did not pioneer this concept);Sun Tzu:The art of warefare, well before Bruce Lee's time. Any way what I'm getting at is that a good martial arts system will not confine you to "one way" , but open the doors to many. 6months here and there with multiple systems just makes you a beginner
many times over. Knowing many techniques is not the same as understanding the multiples of their application.

[meredith]

If you watch UFC's you'll see how you need to know groundfighting techniques incase someone else takes you to the ground. My hung gar shr-fu would always tell us to never go to the ground. There's a girl I've studied hung gar with who I could never beat due to her being bigger, stronger, and equal-to-more experience. But she'd be defenseless if I took her to the ground. I've been studying bjj for only 1 month but feel that I've learned more practical fighting skills in that time than I could get in a year of kung fu. Bjj is fun! And if you don't know it you're at a disadvantage

[reemul]

U.F.C. is a sport, sport has rules. The U.F.C caters to grapplers by restricting other arts. For
example: While A struggles to put B in an arm bar, in a fraction of that time, the B can grab A's windpipe and crush it. I speak only for myself when I say I don't study a sport. If you wish to take a fight to the ground, that is your buisiness, but it is not necessarry nor does it give you stategic advantage(shih).

[This message was edited by reemul on 10-31-00 at 07:40 PM.]

[reemul]

I know some BJJ students, and they are not so quick to assume that going to the ground or trying to go to the ground gives them the advantage, and they have been studying for several years.

[Master Po]

Accually there were no restrictions on neck or windpipe attacks in the first few UFC's. Yet this never happened once... Maybe its just not as easy as it sounds when someone is sitting on your chest pounding on your head.

Anyway there have been many rules added since the early days. Some of these are to protect the fighters which I think is good and some were to make the sport look more "acceptable" to the public which I dont really like. Things like not kicking a downed fighter really changed the game alot. Thank sen. McCane for that one. Anyway I'm just rambling..