Bruce Lee

[red5angel]

By his own account, he put BL in a standing headlock. He was not a good fighter.

WELL i fthtas the evidence you have it must be true!

[truewrestler]

red5angel, please tell me you are joking.... WJM should have been tossed on his head 3 times for those 3 headlocks

[Knifefighter]

WJM was supposedly a seasoned kung fu instructor and fighter who had years of training, right? He should have been intimately familiar with a wide range of Chin Na control techniques, shouldn't he? But he had to resort to a third grade headlock? Either he wasn't a very good fighter or all those years of training were not spent learning much in the realm of practicality, don't you think?

[norther practitioner]

WJM should have been tossed on his head 3 times for those 3 headlocks

Right, glad you know exactly what happend... or what should have happend.

[red5angel]

the headlock in question is never described in detail. However, this story was told only a few years ago, so even if the guy couldn't fight when he and Bruce Lee fought ( not an issue really as I said he was considered the top guy in chinatown at the time) by now he would have learned what you so claim. My instinct is to go with the guy who has lived the martial arts for the last 40 years or so My bet is you aren't seeing the whole picture. Or maybe Bruce Lee was so bad that all it took was a third grade level headlock?

[truewrestler]

The real question is: Who is better.... Wong Jack Man or Carlos Newton? I'll take Carlos... since he knows how to finish a 3rd grade headlock without having to kill his opponent! HAHA

http://fcfighter.com/ufc31newton.htm

[red5angel]

I take WJM since Carlos must be some muscle bound retard who thinks anything traditional is a classical mess. Oh yeah, and he's a grappler

[truewrestler]

Originally posted by red5angel
I take WJM since Carlos must be some muscle bound retard who thinks anything traditional is a classical mess. Oh yeah, and he's a grappler

You are joking right? Let me know so I don't have to dignify that with a response

[red5angel]

all you have to notice is that I didn't insist he was a retard because he was a grappler, just that he was a retard who grappled

besides why wouldn't you respond, I bothered to respond to claims of a third grade headlock

[truewrestler]

sorry, but that's really what it is called in MMA

Newton's nickname is "The Ronin" or Masterless Samurai and his style is Dragonball Z Jiu-Jitsu. I'm guessing you think he is a muscle bound retard because of his muscles in that picture. He is about the most technical MMA fighter out there and uses little power unless necessary....such as when finishing with the 3rd grade headlock.

[red5angel]

sorry, but that's really what it is called in MMA

ok, but assuming that since a guy isn't in mma doesn't know how to deal with a basic headlock or how it can be dealt with is a little narrow minded wouldn't you say? The assumption from you and knifefighter that it was a basic headlock and that he must not be a good fighter because of that is pretty thin.


As for Carlos, it was a joke, I have never met the guy. Sort of a jab at the assumptions being made about WJM.

[Ralphie]

Sorry, couldn't help but reply. When I was in 5th grade, I used the 3rd grade headlock to finish a kid that was bigger than me, and subsequently choked him out years before the advent of BJJ. I also used the mount in my youth to give people the tiki torture and the deadly pink belly.

[truewrestler]

ok, but assuming that since a guy isn't in mma doesn't know how to deal with a basic headlock or how it can be dealt with is a little narrow minded wouldn't you say? The assumption from you and knifefighter that it was a basic headlock and that he must not be a good fighter because of that is pretty thin.

The 3rd grade headlock is not a good move to use and is rarely seen in MMA because you will get tossed on your head.

It might be hard to tell but... Newton quickly put on a rear choke on Pat but Pat escaped to the side since Newton didn't get his hooks in (legs/feet around the body). Carlos kept a hold of the head and finished in an awkward position. That is the only time I have ever seen the 3rd grade headlock used effectively...but as you see it was on the ground in such a way that Pat could not pick him up.

[Water Dragon]

Standing headlock don't necesarily mean 3rd grade headlock. But yeah, the 3rd grade version is a no-no.

[red5angel]

truewrestler, I understand your point, and for the most part I can even agree with you, but I Am hardly going to base my judgement of who one that fight between WJM and BL on one obscure reference to a headlock. I know MMA guys are tough as nails and I know they can fight, but they do not have the patents on maiming or killing or even grappling. While I know claims of death touches and special killing techniques in TMA can sometimes get absurd, I know for a fact that most of these arts do have a few so called "deadly" techniques not to be taken lightly.
In htis particular instance WJM chose to put BL in a headlock, it could have been a basic headlcok, who knows of course BL could have been so fristrated he wasn't thinking straight either, who knows, any thing we say is pure conjecture but I certainly will not base my opinion on one vague sentence.