Bruce Lee

[Shaolin-Do]

Didnt bother to read the whole thread, but are you guys arguing about theories?
lol....
In that case, Im right, and you are all wrong.

[shaolin kungfu]

No you aren't. I'm right, you idiot.

[Shaolin-Do]

I can always hope tho...

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Define standing headlock.

Holding one or both arms around the opponent's face or neck area from the side while both of you are standing. The opponent is usually bent over somewhat and his head is trapped in the crook of the elbow. With the two arm version, the head is locked in by grabbing the wrist or two hands together. In the single-handed version, the head is secured with one arm and death strikes are attempted with the free arm.

[truewrestler]

The match didn't exactly have a referee, so you should assume that if Bruce indeed were to tap out from the headlock or choke, WJM then lets go to keep from injuring Bruce, do you think Bruce would just stop? Or do you think he'd get up and start fighting again even though he tapped?

Choke or knock Bruce out... ?

[TjD]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Holding one or both arms around the opponent's face or neck area from the side while both of you are standing. The opponent is usually bent over somewhat and his head is trapped in the crook of the elbow. With the two arm version, the head is locked in by grabbing the wrist or two hands together. In the single-handed version, the head is secured with one arm and death strikes are attempted with the free arm.

is this a description of the 3rd grade headlock? something good for nuggies and other teasing type things?

i thought a standing headlock was when you had them from behind with their neck in the crook of one arms elbow, and that arm's wrist in the crook of the other arms elbow, whose forearm was at the back of the neck to apply a choke.

or am i totally off?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by TjD


i thought a standing headlock was when you had them from behind with their neck in the crook of one arms elbow, and that arm's wrist in the crook of the other arms elbow, whose forearm was at the back of the neck to apply a choke.

That would be a standing rear naked or sleeper choke.

[truewrestler]

It's a ridiculous thing to argue whether your art or style is better then anothers and shows signs of immaturity and ignorance in my opinion.

Sorry but MMA is not a style if you hadn't noticed, its a sport. Whatever works works, whatever doesn't doesn't.

I just think that it is very strange that WJM would "boast" that he had Bruce in the headlock 3 times. (of course this is just one account of what WJM has said)

He wouldn't think of a choke? Was he new to fighting? Did he not think he would be fighting to win? Did he think this was light-contact sparring for points? How did he plan on finishing the fight?

Oh well, I guess we will never know what really happened in this fight.... too bad there was no film of it. I stand by my opinion though that this was probably a very messy fight similarly to the early UFCs which were prodominently inexperience traditional martial artists. Bruce then realized (whether he won or not is debatable of course) that his performance wasn't clean or pretty and realized his training methods were not geared towards real fighting.

In that same direction I believe that those trained in traditional methods, Bruce Lee and Wong Jack Man, would not be able compete with fighters trained in ring sports (edit: ok, I'm talking about MMA fighters) ... especially current MMA fighters regardless of rules. Throw Matt Hughes, Carlos Newton, Pele, or any decent MMA fighter around their weight against either of these guys and it would be over in minutes if not seconds, with or without any rules.

Just my opinion so I can't be wrong

[TjD]

gotcha, i don't know much about grappling terminology.

i'm just a WC fighter. and as bruce lee says, our system sucks!


bruce lee knew only the basics of wing chun IMHO. it's been stated many times he only new siu lim tau and chum kiu. whoopie. he knew what the hands looked liked, and he knew how to take "baby" wing chun steps.

he learned nothing about the wing chun power generation found in its wooden dummy form and biu jee (the third and last hand form). he didn't learn about its body unity gained from practicing the pole form, nor the strength it builds. he didn't learn any of the entering techniques or have any of the strength gained from the knife form.

Linda Lee, in her book Bruce Lee: The Man Only I Knew, initially dismisses the fight as follows: "The two came out, bowed formally and then began to fight. Wong adopted a classic stance whereas Bruce, who at the time was still using his Wing Chun style, produced a series of straight punches.

linda lee's comments about the fight are in line with this thinking. she stated bruce lee ran in fists-a'-flailin' - simple chain punches. this is very low level wing chun. after this she tries and play up what happens for bruce. but if this was the case theres no reason for WJM to not have wiped the floor with bruce, or at least really frustrate him.

and just like red5 said, if he whooped up WJM so badly, why would it be the foundation of changing everything he did?


i don't really follow bruce lee much, but i do tremendously respect him for his work ethic - i wish i could train that hard. however i think his arrogant attitude detracts from a lot of my respect, as well as how this painted wing chun as a martial art.

all in all, wing chun kicks ass, i don't think bruce lee was very good at it, but after all his MMA training and making JKD i have no doubt he became quite a good fighter.

[truewrestler]

How long did Bruce Lee practice Wing Chun?

[TjD]

obviously not long enough if he was throwing chain punches against wong jack man

**edit**
straight blast = chain punches

[truewrestler]

5, 10 , 15 years? Anyone know?

[PHILBERT]

About 5 years of Wing Chun, started around age 13 and stopped when he left Hong Kong at 18. Perhaps he still learned some stuff when he returned to Hong Kong from his former classmates.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Holding one or both arms around the opponent's face or neck area from the side while both of you are standing. The opponent is usually bent over somewhat and his head is trapped in the crook of the elbow. With the two arm version, the head is locked in by grabbing the wrist or two hands together. In the single-handed version, the head is secured with one arm and death strikes are attempted with the free arm.

OK, if he's doing that I agree he's a dumb-dumb. Standing headlock can also be done chest-to-chest, then step in and turn to break his balance over your hip and throw him. (That's not the best description, but think of doing a hip toss by surrounding his neck)

Same name, two dramatically different ideas.

[diego]

Two things i want to know out of bored curiosity...why did it take wjm two decades orso to speak up?...if he won doesn't that mean bruce had to quit teaching...did he?.

2- what did bruce say about taichi?...did he diss the art or was he just mocking all the fat masters in hong kong who talk about they killer chi but can't kill a flea?.