Yantai, Wah Lum, Da Beng Bu

[TaiChiFist]

Hi all,

I was wondering if Master Chan teaches this form as Big Mantis or does he call it Beng Bu? My shifu, Frank Paolillo, was one of his earliest students from Boston and recieved his teacher's certificate from Master Chan. Although he is no longer affliliated with Wah Lum, he keeps in regular contact with Master Chan and has a good relationship with him.

Shifu was taught a form called Beng Bu and I was wondering maybe in Master Chan's earlier days he called Big Mantis Beng Bu. Has anyone else here studied with Master Chan in his early days before he built the temple in Tampa?

I have to clarify that I don't practice Wah Lum. I am learning Chen Tai Chi and Bagua from Shifu and was thinking of learning the form Beng Bu.

Thanks!!!

[18elders]

it was called beng bu in the early days and then MC changed it to big mantis although in the student hand book the chinese characters for the form say beng bu.
I went to china with your shrfu (frank) in 93, he was my first shrfu's teacher(arthur).

[yu shan]

Been corresponding with a student under Shrfu Tom Turcotte, a former patriarch of WL. He says the same, BM was called BB in old days. ****, guess I`m going to dust off the cobwebs from this Big Mantis, and really give it a good look!

Hua Lin

Wah Lum uses Cantonese terminology, people here are using Mandarin...far as I can tell.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

yu shan
You are correct. Cantonese, Mandarin or English. I'll take what I can get and figure it all out later. As you know I don't wait around for things to get handed to me because I don't expect to live that long.

TaiChiFist
I've been in Wah Lum since 1990 and it's been Big Mantis as far as I can remember. We use a mix of Chinese and English for the form names. Some are known by the Chinese name and others only by the English name.

Anyone have a clue as to the name of the WL version of Luan Jie?

[yu shan]

The Wah Lum Style first off, has no real documentation. This is very important in the MA world. If a style has any creditability, there would be serious documentation. Not much at all can be found on Wah Lum. Very curious about the link between Mantis and this WL Temple...and all the Southern (CLF) & (HG) influence. And the Tan Tui. If you can give us some details or information, please prove me wrong. Thank you.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I may be wrong but as I understand it there was a Northern and Southern WL Temple. The northern Temple was completely destroyed. I believe that's where LKS hid out and learned the Mantis style. Most likely he decided not to return to the Escort service and travelled to the sourthern Temple to live out his life in peace. The southern WL Temple survived until the cultural revolution when it was disguised as a library (I think) to avoid destruction. It was re-discovered in 1997/98. MC was hoping to find some records of LKS at the Temple during the 1998 China trip but I don't believe he found anything. The Temple is currently being restored to it's original design.

[yu shan]

This story has suspicion written all over it. Not to discredit you, Hua Lin Laoshi, but this story seems to change every few years. If WL`s LKS was so great, there should be documentation.

In defense of Hua Lin Laoshi, this Shifu has a Lion`s Heart and means well for the MA World and people in general... juuuss wish he would come train with us in Tampa.

[Joe Mantis]

Also want to hear about the other student's of LKS. Where are they?
Don't they train and have students.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

yu shan
"If WL`s LKS was so great, there should be documentation."
I think this is part of the problem. First, I speak for myself and not as a WL historian or official representative. I want to make that clear in case I say something 'unapproved'.

I think LKS was just one of the many professional escorts of his day and not some great historical hero. He was good enough to take out a few of the fiercest bandits of the time but smart enough to hide out at a monestary when the others were looking to kill him. If he had stuck around and managed to kill them all he probably would have been a widely recognized hero.

Also, being a hired killer he may have kept a low profile and chose not to reveal much of his past to his students or others. He had to bail out of Vietnam because he killed someone there. And he was older then. How much killing did he do in his youth?

If it wasn't for MC's promotion of WL in the States I think it would have faded away into obscurity by now. LKS created WL and apparently MC is the only one to have done something with what he learned. The rest either don't care or took what they knew to the grave.

BTW, the story I told was what I've pieced together myself and not told to me by anyone in WL. I don't know what you were told but the discovery of the southern WL Temple leads me to believe that was LKS's connection to Canton.

[NorthernMantis]

I think that's the southern shaolin temple you mean.

btw yu shan not all great fighters or styles have much documentation.There's different versions of the hung fist being brought to light every minute (northern and southern hung versions). To tell the truth in my opinion I beleive documentation has only become very improtant the last couple of years and I doubt it was something much to be cared about back in the day like the later qing dynasty and early pre communist era when you had everything going haywire. Now lineage however is tottally different. Well in my view I think that lks wasn't looking to build a name but just trying to get by.

Like hl mentioned the're were lot's of good escorts in those days who didn't become famous enough to be written down.

[MantisifuFW]

Originally posted by Joe Mantis

I maybe a Mantis "Scholar" who has not done WL and is merely seeking to bring history together.... maybe that person would recieve a warm welcome.
HMMM could be an article in MQ?????

Joe Mantis,

Though not a scholar myself, I am seeking to bring history of the system and its branches into some focus for those, like me, who don't know.

We have and continue to make overtures to the Wah Lum community. I hope that as time goes by they too will offer articles and support as so many others have already done. I personally believe that as the publication continues and shows that it is going to be around they too will open their doors so that we can all appreciate the work of LKS and Master Chan.

I might get that interview yet

Steve Cottrell

[Joe Mantis]

MantisifuFW

I hope you do get the interview. I think that MC has a lot to contribute to the mantis discussion. At least his experience of LKS and his training methods. I would love to talk with him but I'm not sure how well received I'd be.

Good luck!