Original 5 animal quan

[GeneChing]

The Chinese love 5's - that's why they call their cigarettes 555

The idea of connecting 5 animal frolics with 5 animals kung fu is really enticing, but personally it feels more like both systems are homages to the Chinese 5ophilia than one is to the other. It's like all the other examples of Chiense numerology - 18, 36, 72, 108 etc. - it's really hard to pin down the progenitor.

Actually, the correlation between early qigong systems and martial arts is a fascinating one, one that Dr. Shahar and I have been starting to discuss. Really, when you think about it, that is the break, the origin of CMA as we know it. Every culture has fighting systems, but CMA fused qigong elements and created taolu. This raises a really interesting question - when does taolu first appear?

[Ironmantis]

Hmmm .....

From what I understand, the 5 animal system (Hua To system) consists of Monkey, Tiger Bear, Dear, and Crane. These exercises devloped by the late physician Hua To (during the three kingdoms periods) were to awake, stimulate and move chi in the body (I learned them as the five animal dead, five animal live, and Chen Tien Chi exercises or the 59 Hua To animal play).

The Classic Five Animal form - Tiger, Crane, Dragon, Lepard and Snake are related to different systems or orhans of the body. But from what my Masters shared with me, the history of this form is a tribute to the 128 monks that died supporting rebels trying to overthrough the Qing Emporer.

Please let me know if my research is off here .....

Thanks my fellow MAs.

Iron-Mantis
Shaolin Warrior

[MasterKiller]

Gene. 18,36,72 and 108 all reduce to the number 9 in hebrew numerology, as does 666.

They are divisible by 3, which is an important Chinese number.

From one comes two, from two comes three, from three comes ten thousand things--Tao Te Ching.

[GeneChing]

Well, you can go nuts with Chinese numerology. Remember this is the culture that developed the I Ching.

3 is a magic number (I learned that on Schoolhouse Rock) - 9 is the number of the emperor. You'll find patterns of 9 throughout any imperial possession, from the patterns in the emperor's clothes to the steps in the architecture of their palaces.

[yuanfen]

Gene-FWIW

Chinese and Indian numerology are inter-related and at a fairly early stage.

Indians also had classifications of 5...though instead of wood
and metal-there is wind and space for hindus(akash) and emptiness(sunya-zero) for buddhists. Panchabhutam are 5 elements
and panchakarma are the five ayurvedic healing routines.

And 0,3,9, 18, 36, 108 etc are important in Indian history,
astronomy and organization schemes. Classical Bharat Natyam dancing has 108 key forms.
108 key strike points(marmas). The full buddhist beaded necklace has 108 bead- stations for meditation.

Chan, Zen and Dhyan are equivalent and in Pali its zhan.


The zigzagginng relationships between buddhism and taoism accoubts for some of the differences in details.

joy chaudhuri

[richard sloan]

...are all over the place in Shaolin forms too...

Lohan Duan Da ends with something like Five Flowers Sit on the Mountain, the five flowers stand for the head, the hands, and the feet...

and you see a lot of series of fives elsewhere, like in Tong beiquan, the five kicks...I forget the name of the series...

[N5Animals]

[QUOTE=GeneChing;381168]The Chinese love 5's - that's why they call their cigarettes 555

QUOTE]

As I could remember, 555 is a cigarrette brand from UK>

[GeneChing]

Nevertheless, 555 cigs are hugely popular in China which I'll still attribute to the penchant for 5s in Chinese numerology.

To quote wikipedia

Today, the brand is still very popular in Asia, especially in the Greater China area (including mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan), The Philippines, Vietnam, and Cambodia. Some resources suggest it is the most well-known and popular foreign brand in China

[N5Animals]

You know, I had a really interesting experience with five animal research on my last trip. Since I've been studying Xingyi lately, I've been more interested in animal styles. But for the longest time, I rejected the Songshan Shaolin five animal form since it looked so simplistic. I suppose that being under a BSL master who aslo taught Hung Gar, well, Hung five animal is pretty intense and the Shaolin version just didn't live up to that. But I decided that since I didn't have a lot of training time, Shaolin five animal would be a good one to learn. Well, my Shaolin master was away at the time so I took the advice of many of my other friends at Shaolin and they all looked at me funny. They know that I'm more traditionally oriented, and they asked why I wanted to learn something modern instead of traditional Shaolin! According to them, the five animals were really more of a southern thing, but since then, popular notion has transferred it back to Songshan, so Songshan five animals was created to fill the myth. Now, keep in mind that this is just hearsay, advice of some trusted locals, so I can't say for sure.

BTW, Lao Long, Dr. Shahar's "Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice" is not a book, it's an article that was published in the Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies. And here's a little tease for you all. I'm picking Dr. Shahar up from the airport next week.

I totally understand you. Songshan shaolin 5 animals were created in recent years and they are pieces of crap. 5 animals are most common to be found in southern styles. That does not mean the original 5 animals are not from norhtern shaolin.

It is believed that 5 animals set was created by Bai Yufeng and Monk JueYuan in later Yuan or early Ming dynasty.But according to my master, it is not real. The set was more likely created in later Ming Dynasty.

For what I am learning, our northern five animals set include 5 forms: tiger, snake, leopard, dragon and crane. 176 stances or movements in total. It is a very complicated set, including many similar skills or stances from XingYi, Bagua,Taichi, Pigua and Praying Mantis. It also includs lots of qi-kung or so called internal practices. It is absolutely different to southern 5 animals,nothing same at all. For example, the most popular leopard strike or leopard fist in southern style does not exist in northern 5 animals. Northern 5 animals set is completely an empty hand form, nothing for acrobatic performances or postures to imitate animals. It imitates animals internally, as an example, leopard set is a fast, powerful form set, not becasue it looks like leopard's movement. There is not a singal stance was named after leopard, on the contrary, lots of stances were named after eagle, cat, snake,horse or other animals. It sounds weird but it is absolutely the best form I ever know . So far, few masters are still practicing and teaching this set, and none was from Songshan.

[mrshungkuen]

I practise south system of Hung Gar there we have a form which is called Ng Ying Kuen or Ng Yin Kuen.

Meaning 5 animal fist it includes: tiger, leopard, crane, snake and dragon. Also there seem to be a kungfu system totally focused on 5 animal kungfu called, Ng Ying Kungfu.

But also saw 3 animal styles and others. Difficult to find a true lineage i guess

[GeneChing]

I practise south system of Hung Gar there we have a form which is called Ng Ying Kuen or Ng Yin Kuen.

You'll find a lot more on Hung Gar and their 5 animals on Southern Chinese subforum.