Any video of REAL Kung-Fu out there?

[count]

Look for a book published in Japan about the 10 best underground fighters in Japan. When it was done they added another chapter just for him. From what I heard he's beaten most of them.

I appreciate your desire to learn and get better from being around better fighters than yourself. From what I know about Mr. Su, he would appreciate that very much himself. He's been doing that very thing for probably 40 years as opposed to 4 years of high school wrestling. His teachers were among the best in China, Taiwan and Japan. He made a point of seeking the best teachers in the world and putting his ass on the line in underground fights, the likes of which you can only imagine.

I am not defending this guy because he is my teacher or anything like that. He's not. I have met him and felt first hand his ability. I have a huge amount of respect for him or anyone of that skill level. If you can't see it, I'm sure he'd be glad to show you. He's very approachable and loves to have fun.

I'm pretty sure he has some fight video's you can purchase. Some training video's too. I don't own them. But even than, I doubt you'll understand unless you feel it for yourself. That's what I do if I find someone like him. I try them out and beg for punishment. Than you know the truth. All the rest of this chatter is speculation based on your own experience. When you get close to 40 years, let me know.

[BAI HE]

My hat would be off to anyone that could get
close enough to Master Su to actually wrestle with him.

His fight record is probably not what you think.
I will say two words about his experience:

Yakuza Bodyguard.

[truewrestler]

I can see his work with the Yakuza is highly documented: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...22master+su%22

...as you can see I haven't had any luck finding an article/info about this. If you have any I would love to learn more!

count, thanks for your feedback

[count]

Originally posted by BAI HE
My hat would be off to anyone that could get
close enough to Master Su to actually wrestle with him.

His fight record is probably not what you think.
I will say two words about his experience:

Yakuza Bodyguard.

LOL, those are two words I won't use publically about him. At least not on the record.

[BAI HE]

I see. Yes if I were involved with the less savory elements of society I'd be sure to post it on the internet.

[BAI HE]

Anyhoo, it's a rumour I've heard many times. Whether true or not
who Knows?

I have heard from may sources that he is as tough as nails.

[truewrestler]

Did he fight Frank Dux in the Kumite? lol

[BAI HE]

Hey go ask him yourself! I guarantee you he'll crack your head open. Honest. Really!

[count]

Originally posted by truewrestler
Did he fight Frank Dux in the Kumite? lol

No, that was Cung Lee.

[fa_jing]

hey master Su has awesome mechanics from what I see. Don't worry about the takedown defense - ok for your repetoire but the standard takedown defenses from grappling arts (sprawl, buckback etc) should be your bread-and butter...


R: How do you feel about the more popular events of today such as the Ultimate Fighting Championships and the prominence of ground fighting?

MS: These events are the true form of martial arts; it's good to see tournaments where fighters from various backgrounds come together. Thanks to likes of Rickson Gracie, standing fighters have been forced to re-evaluate their methodologies.

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by truewrestler
My previous statement holds true for the videos you posted too. I will be highly skeptical until I see it in sparring. Much of it looked extremely rehearsed... like the tackle counter... but that is just what I took from it.

http://www.evolutionary-systems.com/...ocs/video.html

This is just going to be a rant(you have warned): I wrestled through highschool and the tackle counter he shows will simply not work in a "live" situation. The guy he was demonstrating on actually used his forward foot to stop his momentum, since the counter will not work otherwise. The guy would be on his own ass if an unwilling opponent tackled him and he tried that technique. I for one step to the outside of the forward leg of a mirrored stance, which makes the technique worthless, however if I did step to the inside I would be picking up his forward leg. That would actually be my goal regardless of which way I shoot in and would makes the technique worthless. If a takedown counter is foiled by someone picking up the leg left undefended is not a very good counter.

Thanks for the input. That's all I needed.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by truewrestler
the tackle counter he shows will simply not work in a "live" situation. The guy he was demonstrating on actually used his forward foot to stop his momentum, since the counter will not work otherwise. The guy would be on his own ass if an unwilling opponent tackled him and he tried that technique. I for one step to the outside of the forward leg of a mirrored stance, which makes the technique worthless, however if I did step to the inside I would be picking up his forward leg.

Sounds like Mr. Su did the right thing against his attacker's inside entry, and you have a beef with the attacker's entry, not Mr. Su's response. While I personally would agree with your comments, are they really consistent for all wrestlers? I've seen plenty of allegedly decent wrestlers go for inside entries on takedowns like that. You haven't?

Speaking in general, it looks like Mr. Su controlled the distance, faked the guy into entering too quickly, did a level change, disrupted the guy's posture, then went for a head-arm control.

Controlling the distance, level, and posture seem to me like excellent "rules of thumb" for grappling defense. This is distinctly different than the "I hit him in the pressure point when he's charging and he falls down" you often, unfortunately, might hear from people.

For whatever it's [probably not] worth, not only have I done this general tactic successfully myself, but I've seen plenty of others do it as well.

Frankly, so long as the general tactic doesn't seem outrageous, I think you would have to touch hands with something similar before you make this kind of proclamation. There's been plenty of CMA types here remarking about standard BJJ moves the same way you've remarked about this, and it tends to be generally because they've simply never touched hands with a BJJ practitioner. They tend not to understand the less overt aspects of a BJJ technique (like how you position yourself and use your structure and your opponents) that make it work. Do you think you might be capable of the same thing?

If you've got access to MMA.TV archives, there have been a couple threads about him there by people who've touched hands with him, and they've all commented on him quite favorably.

[truewrestler]

There's been plenty of CMA types here remarking about standard BJJ moves the same way you've remarked about this, and it tends to be generally because they've simply never touched hands with a BJJ practitioner.

I guess what he did is illegal in amateur wrestling... oh wait, its not

I only commented on this technique because takedown defense is something I'm familiar with...actually takedowns are what I'm MOST familiar with. I stand by what I said... if you actually perform a takedown/tackle (forward momentum and/or grabbing legs) the tackle counter won't work. I have nothing against jamming a takedown and foot sweeping. I just don't think what he shows is possible in a real situation...it is too specific to knowing exactly what your opponent does.

Why does he spread his arms so wide when the guy shoots in? I have "accidentally" headbutted people when I shoot in and they lower their level. What is keep the shooter from banging into his head...assumming the tackle is a tackle (forward momentum).

[truewrestler]

"I've seen plenty of allegedly decent wrestlers go for inside entries on takedowns like that. You haven't?"

I personally do not step inside a mirrored stance. I shoot a single leg to the outside. I double leg/high crotch to an opposite stance. Like I said though... inside or out the forward leg would be wrapped up and/or there would be forward momentum.

This is just how I feel about this technique.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by truewrestler
I personally do not step inside a mirrored stance. I shoot a single leg to the outside.

Yes, I agree completely. But that's not true of every wrestler; and at least not consistently true of every decent wrestler. And it's not true of the footage in question. Surely we can only critique Mr. Su for reacting on what he was given, and not something else?

Like I said though... inside or out the forward leg would be wrapped up and/or there would be forward momentum.

There was forward momentum. This is why Mr. Su had to check before going for a control.

I just don't think what he shows is possible in a real situation...it is too specific to knowing exactly what your opponent does.

If you mean you would disagree with teaching this technique as a universal defense against takedowns, I agree. But what makes you think that's what's being done?

Why does he spread his arms so wide when the guy shoots in?

It looks to me like he does it a moment before the guy shoots in, and he does it as a "fake" to get the guy to respond in that manner.

What is keep the shooter from banging into his head

Reestablishing a guard before the distance is crossed; which, it seems to me, he did.