Any video of REAL Kung-Fu out there?

[NorthernMantis]

Ok try this

http://www.evolutionary-systems.com/...ocs/video.html

That's where I got them form. When I click on the links they work.

[chen zhen]

It just sez "Publications > Video Clips" in the top of the page, but I can't see any clips. Just a white screen.

[NorthernMantis]

Hmm... ok well try the homepage.

I think you might need java for this but I'm not sure.

[fa_jing]

7- WD saw the first tape, you didn't. There is another tape that he didn't see either. This is footage shot after the one you saw. Some tournament fights including mine with one of your classmates, as well as your Sifu doing a double sword form and your sifu's brother kicking ass in the fighting.

[truewrestler]

Well, Shadowboxer PMed me about Grados but I couldn't respond because his box was full... I'll just post here:

hey Shadowboxer,

His footage looked cool but I saw nothing on his site that was sparring. If I missed a clip please let me know but it all looked to be demonstrations.

I am skeptical that his sparring videos would have much resemblence to his demonstration videos...especially the blocking/stopping of strikes. What gets me is: How many Wing Chun practitioners are there in the world? Why have I not seen trapping or blocking, such as his videos displayed, in a competition? Everything in the videos is legal in San Shou and MMA, and in MMA opened fingered gloves are used like he was wearing.

When I have questions like that it is hard for me to be anything other than skeptical. Do you understand my skepticism?

Let me know also how you feel about his clips.

Dan

Shadowboxer wrote on 07-29-2003 11:24 AM:
Hey,

What did you think of those Grados clips from the REAL Kungfu thread? Just curious?

[Oso]

TW, I'll give my .02 again.

It's the training. Present day kung fu schools tend to be pretty self-indulgent. They train with each other inside the kwoon and maybe w/ brother/sister schools of the same style. Very rarely do they go out and seek other disciplines to test themselves against. If you stay inside 4 walls and only train to 'beat' your own style and only the best fighter in that school, who may not be the teacher, then you don't experience anything resembling 'combat' where your opponent doesn't have any real emotional block against taking your head off.


ok, just part of my thoughts but my radio just yelled at me to be somewhere.

[Shadowboxer]

TW,

I just watched the clips again twice. I am impressed with his footwork and sensitivity, important elements of KF. He doesn't bounce and is rooted almost all the time. It looks to me that he counters and is one step ahead of the attacks coming at him,specifically the last video where he is dealing with the guy between the stacks of boxes. It also looks like to me that they did include some sparring clips mixed into the movies. He counters and collapses their structure and acheives a superior position where he could be as nasty as he wants(arm breaks,neck breaks,knee breaks, etc.) I am curious if you see this as well? I don't think they were all out sparring but it looked like it was free sparring. I think he had control of his attackers without sacrificing his structure which is also an important element of KF.

As far as your questions go, I don't know how many WC practicioners there are in the world but as Yuanfen will tell you not all the WC out there is good WC.

And, I don't know why you have not seen trapping like he showed in MMA comps. Perhaps the simple answer is because they don't practice it. I think the boxing gloves in San Shou make it impractical but they do use open fingered gloves in Pride/UFC so...??? When I mess around with friends who are moderately resisting it works great.

So I would point to the footwork and his hands as displaying "REAL" Kungfu. Anybody else care to comment?

[NorthernMantis]

Hey TW what about the vids I posted? I would like to hear some critique too you know.

[dezhen2001]

just to say: if you get a white screen instead of the movie clip... it means you need the newest quicktime or you need to download a codec to view the compressed movie

dawood

[truewrestler]

Originally posted by NorthernMantis
Hey TW what about the vids I posted? I would like to hear some critique too you know.

My previous statement holds true for the videos you posted too. I will be highly skeptical until I see it in sparring. Much of it looked extremely rehearsed... like the tackle counter... but that is just what I took from it.

http://www.evolutionary-systems.com/...ocs/video.html

This is just going to be a rant(you have warned): I wrestled through highschool and the tackle counter he shows will simply not work in a "live" situation. The guy he was demonstrating on actually used his forward foot to stop his momentum, since the counter will not work otherwise. The guy would be on his own ass if an unwilling opponent tackled him and he tried that technique. I for one step to the outside of the forward leg of a mirrored stance, which makes the technique worthless, however if I did step to the inside I would be picking up his forward leg. That would actually be my goal regardless of which way I shoot in and would makes the technique worthless. If a takedown counter is foiled by someone picking up the leg left undefended is not a very good counter.

[Oso]

I have to agree w/ TW on this one.

NOTHING, moved forward from the attacker. He didn't commit to the attack. Plus it was a crappy single leg.

imo, the reason single and double legs work is because of the commited lunge. Whether the leg(s) get wrapped up or not you still have to deal with the attackers mass. often, if the initial attack is fumbled, you can recover and make a second go of it because you hit him with all your weight.

[truewrestler]

"Whether the leg(s) get wrapped up or not you still have to deal with the attackers mass."

This isn't often or maybe even usually the case with the single leg (stepping to the outside)... but that isn't important for this discussion Either way (forward movement or lifting the leg) the counter wouldn't work.

Oso, is it just me or is the forum for most part more open to grappling, kickboxing, MMA, etc lately?

[count]

Originally posted by truewrestler
My previous statement holds true for the videos you posted too. I will be highly skeptical until I see it in sparring. Much of it looked extremely rehearsed... like the tackle counter... but that is just what I took from it.

http://www.evolutionary-systems.com/...ocs/video.html

This is just going to be a rant(you have warned): I wrestled through highschool and the tackle counter he shows will simply not work in a "live" situation. The guy he was demonstrating on actually used his forward foot to stop his momentum, since the counter will not work otherwise. The guy would be on his own ass if an unwilling opponent tackled him and he tried that technique. I for one step to the outside of the forward leg of a mirrored stance, which makes the technique worthless, however if I did step to the inside I would be picking up his forward leg. That would actually be my goal regardless of which way I shoot in and would makes the technique worthless. If a takedown counter is foiled by someone picking up the leg left undefended is not a very good counter.

Are you actually aware of that guys fighting record? His background? Do you know who he is? I wouldn't judge him by some small internet demonstration. I suggest you ask some of these idols you guys have. My guess is they can tell you about this guy fighting. I think Mr. Su can make this stuff work in a "live situation". LOL

[Oso]

you know, I don't know but it seems like I shoot a single different then it is generally done these days. I need to go check out the local HS this fall and see how it's being taught these days.

I keep my head inside on a single and drive the shoulder into the lower ribs. But, then again, I don't shoot a single too often, never did even in HS. I was a fireman's kinda guy.


as far as the forum being more open, I think so, a little, maybe.

[truewrestler]

Originally posted by count


Are you actually aware of that guys fighting record? His background? Do you know who he is? I wouldn't judge him by some small internet demonstration. I suggest you ask some of these idols you guys have. My guess is they can tell you about this guy fighting. I think Mr. Su can make this stuff work in a "live situation". LOL

(****, I just wrote a long response but closed the window while doing something else...very frustrating)

The Gracie's teach ****ty wrestling sometimes and they have good fighting records....?

I was giving my view from my 4+ years of competitive wrestling and learning from and watching better wrestlers than myself. Forward momentum and/or grabbing the legs (the definition of a tackle) would negate this technique. When a tackle negates a tackle counter... I consider the counter worthless. That's like a gun disarm that works perfectly if the guy with the gun doesn't pull the trigger.

Count, please let me know if you have any videos of him fighting... thanks