Shuai Chiao is Chinese

[Royal Dragon]

Kung Fu started with wrestling from India if you didn't know

False, Chinese Kung Fu started with the first chinese caveman hitting another, and then teaching how he did it to his clan. Were talking 20,000 years BC or more.

According to the "Spring and Autum" of Chinese martial arts", there is archialogical evidence of martial practice as far back as 1.7 million years in the form of fighting tools, and cave paintings.

By 2100 BC, the Xia dynasty was born, China's first slave state marking the end of primitive society. According to the Spring and Autum of Chinese martial arts", there were both armed and unarmed systems being practiced by the mlitary, and civillian populations. Shaolin Temple was built almost 3000 years later. Then, it's the Yogic traditions of India that were imported, and used as physical training, not the martial arts. The martial arts themselves are, and always have been purely Chinese in origin.

Huang ti (Yellow Emperor 27th century B.C, http://www.mystae.com/streams/ufos/emperor.html )

It is said during the reing of Hung Ti, organised combat in the form of "Horn" locking was practiced. This is the forebearer of Chinese Wrestling or Shui Chaio.

That all being said, Shui Chiao is arguably the OLDEST martial art in existence, short of maybe Greaco Roman wrestling.

[truewrestler]

Wrestling is the oldest sport let alone martial art.

there is archialogical evidence of martial practice as far back as 1.7 million years in the form of fighting tools, and cave paintings

Yes, they did kill animals and each other

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Liokault



But here you cut your self off from kung fu and so put your self into the class of "other related arts".

Yeah!?!?! Well at least I don't beat up on girls.

[Liokault]

there is archialogical evidence of martial practice as far back as 1.7 million years in the form of fighting tools, and cave paintings

I some how had the idea that cave paintings only ever showed aminals........I could be wrong about this but I would be very interested in seeing a cave painting showing 2 trogs grappling.


Also at what point did Shuai Chiao become Shuai Chiao as u know it (i.e. a formal system) and not just wreastling that you could find every where else in the world?

[Royal Dragon]

Don't know for sure (Without a time machine), supposedly in the time of the Yellow Emperor, or about 4000 years ago. Shaolin and it's Indian influance is a tad over 1500. I'm sure curriculems were varied, but all the concepts were suposedly inplace by then, maybe earlier.

It's been awile since I looked at this stuff, but I seem to remeber that arrows uncovered from that far back were horisontally made. This indicates use against humans because our rib slots are horisontal. Hungting arrows are vertical to more easily slide thru the vertiucal rib slots of game.

Either way, it indicates the Chinese were fighting long before the infuance of the Indian "Monks", and Chinese Kung Fu IS a uniquely Chinese system of combat (for the most part).

[truewrestler]

****, I can't find the page now but I did a search yesterday on google regarding kung fu history and india. It said that there was martial arts in china well before the indian monks brought kung fu to the shaolin temple. I don't remember the details but it something about greek pankration being an influence on chinese martials arts well before shaolin kung fu was created.

I'll post a link when I find it... searching through my browser's history now because I can't get it to come up on google.

[GGL]

Orginally Chiao-Ti (horn locking) utill the name Shuai Chiao or Swai Jiao being agreed on by the 1928 National Koushu Committee in Nanking. I believe

[Royal Dragon]

Personnally, I think the Pankration thing is a bit of a stretch on thier part.

[Black Jack]

I don't see how its anymore of a stretch than the supposed histories given by "ancient" asian systems for their forms, backgrounds, and timelines.

Every culture this side of a fat ladies arse has had its share of dangerous people. Unless you own a H.G. Wells time machine the best we can all do is make our educated guesses and play games of ego academia.

It all started when the first caveman picked up a rock and smashed the other gents grapes in for squeezing his juicebox.

btw- If you do own a time machine, sign me up for the expedition as I am itching to kick a morlock in the throat.

[rogue]

Watch it BJ, the morlocks were the good guys.

[Black Jack]

LOL!

You may be on to something. The Eloi do look a bit like the French.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Every culture this side of a fat ladies arse has had its share of dangerous people.

Yeah, what about the other side of a fat lady's arse?! HUH? Totalitarialitittieantinationanalistarianis...t, er. *****.

[rogue]

The morlocks (people like us BJ) worked and kept things running, the Eloi (liberal Democrats and Canadians) were just food. Interesting twist Wells put in.

[Chang Style Novice]

This is quite an educational board. I never realized that supporting a workers revolution against the idle rich made one a conservative republican before. I always had the idea that was a rather communistic POV.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Ralphie
My biggest beef with both traditional and modern/sports guys on this board is this belief that cma is a striking art only. At the core of most good fighting that I've seen, weather bjj, judo, cma, boxing etc. the general idea is to uproot (make unbalanced) your opponent, then attack/finish. In other words, gain position, then apply your technique.

The thought isn't that CMA is all about striking, the thought is that CMA has no substantial groundwork.