Wing chun counters to jabs?

[Jook Lum]

Hello everyone i do not study Wing Chun so i am curious how your style blocks,counters or neutralize quick jab punches.Thank you for your time.

[TjD]

in wing chun typically we assume every strike is the real deal,
so if someone puts their arm out with a fake jab (or a real one) we do the same thing: try and close the gap; bridge the jab if its in the way, if its not - hit 'em. but most importantly, get in there and hit em

there aren't really any set techniques, ie. he does that I do this. it depends on the situation when the jab gets bridged.

(sorry if it's not the answer you were looking for)

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Jook Lum
Hello everyone i do not study Wing Chun so i am curious how your style blocks,counters or neutralize quick jab punches.Thank you for your time.

kick him in the groin.

[S.Teebas]

We would pull out our double swords and cut the hand off

[Savi]

It depends how you are facing them. Strategically, we train to flank the closest side of the opponent to us. For example, my left lead side is flanking their right lead side. Some fighting styles refer to this as an 'open stance alignment'. In turn, that does not allow a non-telegraphic (linear) attack to enter from the outside of our leading side making interceptions easier to manage. We will use this 'open stance alignment' to describe the following examples.

Depending if the jab is coming to the inside or outside of our lead hand will determine what response we take. The key thing to remember is that space determines what techniques will be employed. Some examples are as follows:

Outside High Attack: Intercepting (have more time)
Presuming the attack is targeting the head area, if you are able to read the attack before it enters your space a side spearing arm (Wang Biu Sau) would be most suitable to cover the head area. This is provided you do two things:

1) advance the body forward into the attack itself on a sideways diagonal thereby closing the depth as well as flanking the opponent far enough sideways to be out of range of the secondary hand, and

2) maintain whole body support for the spearing hand that is clearing the upper head area of the attack. If your bridging is successful, you should have disaligned the jabbing arm from the rest of the body support while establishing your position inside their space. In other words, you have just swept the attack off the battlefield.

What you end up with is not a nose to nose confrontation, but an advantage that leaves you with all of your weapons facing and in penetrating range of the target while disabling the initial threat. Also, it gives you the inside position of all of their weapons.

Inside Jab attack: Intercepting (have more time)
Same set up as above (our left side to their right side)... An upper gate attack inside the lead hand is quite easier to deal with because of the availability of both of our hands now. It is what we call a Two Line Offense and Defense where the lead hand is directly in front of the back hand, roughly one forearm length apart front to back. In our WC, we refer to this posture as Jong Sau.

1) The lead hand can actually do several things. For now, one example we will use a 'catching-type hand' which jerks the punch across our body while influencing the attacker's center of gravity. This does a few things to the attacker: a) crosses up the attacker's weapons, b) steals their time, c) gives you more time as well as the flank against them. This in turn allows you to advance closer to the attacker giving proper striking range for the back hand release, and just enough space to maintain a viable defense while striking.

--------------------

In these examples, all are hypothetically being proposed in a timeframe where you have excellent time to respond and engage the attack with the lead hand. In this particular timeframe it is what we call intercepting. A different response would be called for, should the attack bypass the lead hand. This would call for the back hand to respond. In this particular timeframe we refer to is as redirecting, which I did not address in this post. Keep in mind also that these descriptions are general in nature, intended to give a 'little idea' about the scenario only.

[fa_jing]

For cross-stance setup - Evade, control distance, pick your moment - a lazy or uncommitted jab - pak sao with rear and punch with lead hand to his inside gate with a short step forward, if he blocks with a slap then you trap the lead hand with yours (jut sao or lan sao) while fading to the outside and hit him with the rear hand.

There are many other options, but this one works reasonably well. It does involve an inside gate attack, so may not be suitable against a much larger opponent.

[Universal Stance]

Cross Arm:
Pak sao with rear hand with trap; Cheung sao; or Tan sao, changing angle with lead hand to Bil sao with lead hand while trapping with rear.

Parrallel Arm:
Fook sao with lead arm.

My old sifu used to teach amateur boxers how to incorporate wing chun principles in into boxing. TWC as taught by Grandmaster Cheung seemed to work well into it. Anyway, we were taught to attack off rhythm by pak sao'ing the first jab. Fook sao'ing the next, which does several things:

- Throws opponent off the usual 1-2-3 rhythm
- Creates a bridge
- Slows the jabs return
- Gives you control of the elbow
- (Once you have the elbow trapped) gives you a straight line from the elbow to his head for attack
- Assists in creating addition lines of attack or traps. ie, rotation into a garn sao, another pak sao or arm lock

I used all above mentioned techniques, especially the parallel arm version, all the time...works for me. When you fook sao it, bring it a little lower, hooking the fist and enter as he is pulling his hand back.

[Tom Kagan]

Originally posted by Jook Lum
Hello everyone i do not study Wing Chun so i am curious how your style blocks,counters or neutralize quick jab punches.Thank you for your time.

Slap, thrust, jam, get the heck out the way, attack down the line ... blah blah blah ... blah blah blah ... it's about the same strategy as any other decent style, though it might look a little bit different on occasion.

Sao Gerk Song Siu, Mo Jeet Jiu -- Ving Tsun Kuen Kuit.

[yuanfen]

jook lum- are you studying with sifu Mark or one of his students?
In SPM what would you do?

[Jook Lum]

Thank you everyone for your replies!It is always interesting to see how different people and styles deal with different strikes.I have studied under GFM.To answer your question about the jab-Usually i use a Moy Shu(gliding or grinding hand) to counter the jab.It is a soft / feeling block which uses the first part of the hand(first part is from tip of fingers to about two to two and a half inches below the wrist).As with most counters it can be applied using diiferent powers depending on the angle,speed and power of attack.For a jab it is usually done with either short power to cause a small deflection of the punch or a sticky / sliding movement to slide across the top of the punchers wrist(from the outside of the arm).Low kicks and dropping low and striking also work very effectively.I hopes this answers your question,if not let me know so i can explain it better.

[yuanfen]

jook lum-understood. Thanks much.

[8StalksOfRice]

depends upon the quality of the jab
i dare say most wingchunners never face(d) a boxer with an excellent jab

whats and excellent jab.. accurate, fast, powerful enough to keep you at bay or set you up

you ever seem Muhammad Ali's jab? I doubt many of you could counter it.. its simply impossible to even see it coming before it tags you in the face..

find a good boxer with a jab who doesnt want to mess up yer face and try some sparring.. you may learn something

[Edmund]

Who has *not* seen Ali fights?
There's miles of footage on Ali.

Ali did not have a fast jab. He was a heavyweight and went at heavyweight speeds. Let's not get carried away.

[zen_monkey]

Quote "Ali did not have a fast jab"

hehehehe

Sorry but I would have to disagree.

[yuanfen]

Jacobs who was Ali's comanger was also world handball champ in his time. He hada an expert tecnically(movie frames with synchronized cameras) compare the speed of Ali's jabs and those of the great middleweight- and possibly best boxer of all times- Sugar Ray Robinson. Ali's jabs were faster.
Practice against simulated jabs of average quality can create illusions.