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Thread: how many forms do you think there are in wah lum?

  1. #61
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    Getting back to the topic of the thread there's one thing to keep in mind: MC is old school and after 8th Level what you learn is customized to what your strengths are so each student learns different.

    The standard curriculum only goes so far then it varies by student skills. So there really is no set WL form list . It's open ended. Also, what you learn at the higher levels depends on circumstances. I learned some stuff that other didn't just because it worked out that way. Being in the right place at the right time.

    I've missed out on some good stuff for the same reason. Actually, in the early days it was pretty much random. I know some guys that started off with 36 Hands since there was no curriculum laid out at the time.

    I suspect with Mimi taking the lead there will be further refinements and structure. Wah Lum is still a work in progress. I happen to know the MC has taken possession of another complete system of Kug Fu that is very similar to Wah Lum. I suspect some of that will be integrated into WL in the future.

    Forms are transient, they aren't written in stone to be preserved and worshipped. They are just a collection of moves compiled for different purposes such as drilling certain attributes or providing examples of usage.

    It's the techniques themselves that are of importance and shoud be the focus of training. If you understand the principles, concepts and moves then designing foms should be just another tool to help achieve the desired results.

  2. #62

    jack

    hey jack,
    send me a pm

  3. #63
    I can't comment about this since I am an 8 step M practitioner...

    Is WAH LUM the same style as 7 star?

    If I remember correctly..7 star has between 117-123 forms ...

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Erasmus Mingatt View Post
    I can't comment about this since I am an 8 step M practitioner...

    Is WAH LUM the same style as 7 star?

    If I remember correctly..7 star has between 117-123 forms ...
    Nope, Wah Lum is a hybrid style of mantis unique from 7 Star.

  5. #65
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    Yao

    Are you allowed to expand on your comment about this other style MC is taking on?

    I know what you mean about being in the right place at the right time. That is how I learned Little Buddha Palm, Big Mantis and some others. The chips were falling my way those days I guess, WL forms that is.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by yu shan View Post
    Are you allowed to expand on your comment about this other style MC is taking on?
    Am I allowed? I really don't think that applies. Sorry though if I came across as having inside knowledge or having some authority on the subject. I'm only on the outer fringe and maybe someone still in the system can clarify.

    Did you take any of the Ching Ping Gim seminars? You were gone before the Tassle/Gim seminars I believe (short version taught on a cruise seminar, the complete set taught at recertification came with copy of Quan Pu). Those sets came from Master Lu Jinhai and I believe he offered the complete system to MC.

    I could be wrong though. I don't usually pay much attention to form names or history, I just focus on the moves and what I can do with them.

    The Leen Sow Kuen handset we learned from him in Shanghai (1998) was so close to the look and feel of WL that we picked it up fairly easy. I really like it and integrated some of the moves into my WL 1st Form 2-man. If we ever find ourselves in the same room in the future I'll show you some.

    Hope I'm not too inaccurate in my info.

  7. #67
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    FYI

    The breakfall form and the drunken form are two different forms. Both very difficult to execute........
    "Do not follow in the footsteps of the men of old, seek what they sought"

  8. #68
    So I am kinda Curious, what level are most of the Wah Lum sifus that are currently in Wah Lum still? From what I have heard, most only have up through 6th form, if that, and Chan really has not shown anyone but Mimi and some of the old timers who left long ago the advanced stuff?

    Also, I keep hearing about the old Wah Lum vs. the New. I hear that the new is much more wushu. Is this true? Is this why many of the old timers left? obviously politics play a part with any martial art, i am just curious what the main politics were that caused the various rifts...

    Anyone know the answers to the above questions?

  9. #69
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    Each individual has his or her own reasons for leaving WL so I can't give an overall answer for why so-and-so left, only why I did. Thats a story for a different thread, which was already done several years ago (called Why I left WL I believe).

    I haven't been in the WL system for awhile and have lost touch with most people I know that are still in it, so I will only comment on my experience. I feel that the trend was definitely more toward wushu-izing the forms. Some people may argue this, please remember I am only giving my opinion. I do not feel this came from MC, but from other Sifu's and students in the organization. This may simply be a reflection of what was/is going on in the Chinese martial art scene in general in the US and some Sifu's and students were more influenced by this than others.

    If anyone wonders if they are in a school that is "wushu-ized", regardless of style, or feel that they themselves may be individually "wushu-ized", there is one easy way to find out. Simply go take a look at the weapons rack......
    "Do not follow in the footsteps of the men of old, seek what they sought"

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Squat View Post
    If anyone wonders if they are in a school that is "wushu-ized", regardless of style, or feel that they themselves may be individually "wushu-ized", there is one easy way to find out. Simply go take a look at the weapons rack......
    OK, I'll bite, because I can see this from several angles.

    Are you talking about the steel used for the metal weapons, the quantity of weapons or the type of weapons being an indicator?

  11. #71
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    Cerulean

    Arnt you one of the old timers? I have seen video of some of the earlier years, and it definitely appears that the forms were much more difficult. I suspect MC maybe had to tone down the difficulty of the forms. I could be wrong.

    isol8d

    I got a hunch your on the right page, but thanks for taking the bite.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  12. #72
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    Isol8d

    I'm referring to the type of steel in the weapons. That being said, I am not flaming wushu by any means. I love wushu and totally respect the wushu players.
    "Do not follow in the footsteps of the men of old, seek what they sought"

  13. #73
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    Hi Guys,
    As a long time Wah Lum practitioner I can tell you that the Sifu exam is basically the same as it has always been. My 36 hands for the Sifu test is fundamentally unchanged since 1978. That is the way I teach my students.

    The 'Wushu-ized' Wah Lum that people talk about comes from seeing Wah Lum in public demonstrations, shows, or tournaments. The add-ons to forms for the extra 'pop' for the viewers has a very long tradition in martial arts in general, not limited to Wah Lum.

    If the school you're attending does a lot of public competitions and/or performances, chances are you'll see students adding gymnastic type movements to their forms to grease the groove with the viewers.
    If the school you're attending does not, you're either lucky or unlucky, based on your preference for flash.

    One thing for sure though, the surest way to get a "moon cha cha" from Master Chan is to add any kind of a flashy move during the Sifu test.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by yu shan View Post
    Cerulean

    Arnt you one of the old timers? .....
    Yes and no I guess.... My material is really old, but it did not come from me training directly with Chan. My instructor trained with Yao Li both before and after Chan moved from Boston... and stayed with Yao after the split, focusing on the mantis training he started with... He is now in his 70s and I have taken over teaching the style in the area... The reason for my questions are simply a curiosity of what has changed since the old curriculum (We have very, very little modern wushu in our forms if any)... what can I say, I have an interest in history ;-)

    Thanks all for humoring a student of Mantis in the South West.

  15. #75
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    Spiralstair

    Are you really in Switzerland? That must be a beautiful place!

    Anyway, I agree with your comments, it is a general practice to spice up the forms for public viewing or tournaments. Everyone does it, always have, always will.

    As far as MC giving someone a hard time for changing the forms, etc. I have no doubt that that is also true. I can only imagine some of the things he has seen! As I said, I don't think it came from MC. But I must add that I saw it spill over into the kwoon as well. That's why I made the weapons rack comment (which I already regret). Not going to name names, don't want to cause any arguements or bad vibes. Using wushu weapons for everyday training in traditional schools is just one of those things that crept it's way into many schools here, not just some schools in WL. As I have stated before, just giving one persons opinion (mine). I have read enough of your posts to know where you stand and FYI I feel that you are an asset to the CMA community, not just WL.

    And for the record, WL is an awesome style and it helped me tremendously. I recommend it highly. I don't regret my time in the system and I would do it all over again (if only I was young again!!!)
    "Do not follow in the footsteps of the men of old, seek what they sought"

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