newbie info?

[sakko]

Hi there,

I'm interested in starting martial arts. I'd like to get some exercise and be more fit. I've been dieting and am down to 245 (at 6') and hopefully lower soon. Clearly to lose more weight I'm going to need to start introducing exercise as well, and I thought MA would be a great method of getting fit.

Kung Fu in particular is interesting to me, it seems to have more culture behind it than some other martial arts, but what do I know? Anyway, entertaining my brain while learning how to defend myself and getting fit all at once sounds so much better than a treadmill!

I've been looking around for schools that teach, and there are 2 I know of very close to me, one teaches Kung Fu San Soo, and the other one Shaolin Kung Fu (haven't checked this one out yet, I know there are different styles within shaolin, so I'm going today to see how things are).

Apparently, San Soo is sort of free form, which sounds very appealing, yet very complex. I'm wondering if my mind is ready to be so adaptive yet without knowing anything about MA. Shaolin from what I understand is based on forms of animals, so very specific, and also has a lot of spirituality and culture behind it which is also very appealing to me. Is this accurate? I'm trying to get a picture of the different styles before jumping in.

What kind of things should I look for? Am I too heavy (245) to consider MA as a form of exercise yet? What should I look for in the instructor? What are some average costs per lesson at most schools?

I would really love to listen if anyone has time for some advice, thanks in advance! Also if you have any links to great Kung Fu resources online I'd appreciate it!

[Shaolin-Do]

Howdy, welcome to the forum
What exactly is it you are looking for? Do you want to do forms? Do you want to spar?
No way are you too big for MA... Big people are fun to spar with
Just be careful and dont over do it your first day/week... Id say to check out both of the schools, maybe attend a class from each, and gather what you can, and make your own decision. The san soo will be more or less fight oriented where the Shaolin will be more forms oriented with some sparring... (hopefully)

[sakko]

I don't quite know what I want to do yet Can one defend oneself after practicing forms sufficiently? That is one of my goals to improve my ability to defend myself. I think sparring is important though, as how else can you adapt to what people do?

Anyway that raises another question though, does one sustain many injuries during sparring? Is that sort of dependent on the school? And is safety a consideration in a good school and if so, what kind of things should I look for when "shopping"?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by sakko
I don't quite know what I want to do yet Can one defend oneself after practicing forms sufficiently? That is one of my goals to improve my ability to defend myself. I think sparring is important though, as how else can you adapt to what people do?

Anyway that raises another question though, does one sustain many injuries during sparring? Is that sort of dependent on the school? And is safety a consideration in a good school and if so, what kind of things should I look for when "shopping"?

If you want to simply learn how to be a fighter, then SanSoo is excellent, but it sounded like you were interested in some of the cultural aspects as well.

It's a big can of worms regarding traditional martial artists and their fighting ability. Some people would have you believe that forms are useless in the ability to fight. Granted you can become n excellent fighter just sparring and working drills; probalbly a better fighter than 95% of traditional martial artists, but a traditional martial artist who splits his training in drills, sparring, and forms, with an emphasis on the martial application of the techniques will become an excellent fighter over most everyone else. Plus he is enriched in the cultural aspects of the art and his training can continue and progeress long after his body betrays his desire to continue fighting on a competitve level.

Thats just my opinion of course.

[Shaolin-Do]

"Can one defend oneself after practicing forms sufficiently? "

Ergh.... Id say sparring is pretty darn necessary... Forms are great practice however. Injuries arent very common in sparring... (short of bruises, broken nose here and there from full contact sparring) Nothin too serious however. Id just say check out the schools in your area, see what you like. Talk to the instructors, see how they act, run their classes, ect. Decide what you want after you have attended a couple classes or at least vistsed both schools...

[sakko]

Well from what I've heard so far I think San Soo sounds like a great followup after a few years of doing forms type stuff. First of all, I don't know a thing about martial arts. So getting the basics down and being able to practice set forms sounds like my style for now. Also as was mentioned the cultural aspect IS important to me. I'd like to learn Kung Fu, but also learn ABOUT Kung Fu.

Later when I'm comfortable with my knowledge I can perhaps pursue the defense aspect with some San Soo...

Thanks for the responses so far guys, can you perhaps give me some info regarding cost? I'd like to know what to expect, and how to spot a ripoff...

[JusticeZero]

Changing arts slows one down. It's not like you just pick up new material and suddenly you're more effective - no, the new stuff always conflicts horribly with your old stuff. Even going between arts that are considered similar is a lot like switching from, say, Windows to a Mac - you can't just expect that you'll just flip the thing on and have everything run right.

[Laughing Cow]

Have to agree with Justice Zero.

I switched between Taijiquan styles and found it challenging.

Also I have seen others do the same thing and it seems to be harder the longer you spend in your previous art.

When you join a new style expect about 3~6 months unlearning stuff and getting to grips with the new material.

Even switching teachers within your style/system can result in the need to re-adjust as it is unlikely that 2 teachers will emphasize the same points and do everything the same.

OTOH, it can be fun and eye-opening to get instructions from multiple teachers at times(Seminars and similar).

IME, there are few people that can successfully study multiple styles and keep them completely seperate.

Just some thoughts.

[SevenStar]

IME, people with wrestling or judo experience are like naturals when they come to bjj.

Also, that's something that will depend on the person. After training in karate, I had no problem switching to muay thai - it just seemed natural to me. The problem came two years later when I started longfist. I didn't want to un-learn the muay thai. I didn't affect my forms any, but I never "fought like a kung fu guy" because of my MT habits. 4 years later, I still retain my MT, which is for the better, since that's back to what I'm doing now for striking.

[sakko]

Why does it seem so common then to switch disciplines? I understand what you guys say about switching styles, and it makes perfect sense but I can't help but notice the amount of people here and other places as well with a laundry list of styles.

I went to the Shaolin school near me today, but it was closed, opening in an hour or so I had a busy day to finish but I will be going back tonight to hopefully see a class in action. They teach shaolin kung fu and tai-chi. I did notice 2 things though... there is a screen in front of the businesses window, preventing people on the street from seeing in, and the classes are divided into 1 hour periods... Some days on his computer-printed looking schedule are 2 kung-fu classes back to back and others there are 1 kung fu class after a tai-chi class. Is 1 hour enough? By the time everyone shows up and gets going its gonna cut that time down a little bit more I'm thinking.

The San Soo class on the other side of town however runs classes for 2 hours each session. But I still think forms sounds more appealing to me.

Also I still feel really in the dark about pricing, is it a taboo subject? I just want to make sure I'm not getting taken to the cleaners.

[Merryprankster]

Pricing? Ask when you get there

Two things to beware of:

1. Sparring is patty-cakes only or no sparring at all. Even if the beating on each other is only for "more advanced" students, that's fine, so long as it's getting done. If you have to wait three years to spar though, or something equally stupid, UGH. You should be sparring fairly soon, perhaps six months in at the latest. I'm going to take a lot of crap from some here for saying that but you shouldn't have to wait a year to make what you're doing usable. Also, if Shooter can get his Tai Chi guys effective in a year I don't see why others can't.

2. If the pattern of dealing with an asked question, like "How do I stop a person from 'thus and such' is "Well, just 'x' and then 'y.'" you need to leave once you've figured that out. Real instructors and real MA folks know that's just not true. Any answer like that needs to be caveated with "Try this and then I'd try this, but you know, this may not work...you might have to do something else." There needs to be real recognition that sometimes stuff won't work or that the other guy "beat you to the punch" so to speak, and it's too late to do anything about that so your goal is to "get back to where you were."

Lastly, I'd just like to point out that you can maintain both your training and your interest in the art/s of your choice long after your competitive years are over. I don't know why people say silly things like that. I'm not going to quit playing BJJ or Judo just because I don't feel like competing all the time anymore.

[shaolinboxer]

At your weight, be careful about a style that involves to much kicking. Your menisci (knee cartilidge) will be very succeptable to damage, so avoid long horse stances (good form is fine, but grueling 5 minute dips are dangerous).

Drink plenty of water and beware of overheating...especially since many schools have no climate control.

An hour can be more than enough. Remember, to lose weight you only need to exercise 20-40 minutes a day according to the surgeon general.

Forms are an excellent way to get into shape, but again beware off bending or torquing your knees too much.

Shop around and ask about pricing if you can. I pay $130/month in Manhattan .

It often takes a few tries before you find a school you like, but don't give up! (it took me 8 years)

The culture of martial arts varies school to school. Try reading up on the subject for different opinions...from the old masters to the new educators to see what suits you.

There are thousands and thousands of opinions...but only you can decide what is right for you. Good luck!

[chen zhen]

If I have to make similarities between learning MA & learning languages..

Forms are like grammer, and learning individual words, and then putting them together in fitted sentences which u repeat over & over again, to learn how to pronounce them correct over time.

Sparring is like learning to improvise sentences on your own, in a safe environment, leading to perfection in your language.

Why the hell havent I said this before here?

[MasterKiller]

Why the hell havent I said this before here?

Because it's a stupid analogy?

[chen zhen]

Good point.











i really dunno what im talking about