"Use your body as a shield"

**Phenix** · 08-21-2003, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by [Censored]
...so what one collide in like kamakazi? kyokushin loves breaking test. and the reality in breaking is even ice block crash.
I agree, and that's why I found this thread's opening quote hilarious. The purpose of a shield is to absorb punishment and protect the body. If your body is the shield then what is it protecting?

Protect the ego of the system and the ego of the sifu and the ego of oneself. Until one get knock out....

"I" know a few guys in Lui Toi, Win but die after a few months.... a sad story.

Buddha Said, " All phenomenon has no "self". Why protecting something it is not going to work or damaging? with one's body which is un replace able?

**method man** · 08-21-2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by [Censored]
I wish one of the TWC folks would post a 30-60 second clip of this demo from the video. I also hope that one of you who has worked with William Cheung can answer my other question, whether he personally does his forms in the same way as he demos them on video.

there's a clip of Chueng trying it against Emin but I dont think thats what u had in mind

**Miles Teg** · 08-21-2003, 05:12 PM

Censored
Do you remember the thread on TWC anti grappling and the clip that went with it? Thats where I saw the hop knee entry thing. Go to that thread click on the link and there will be a bunch of clips to chose from. One of them has a guy kind of skipping to one side and entering with chain punching.

**Edmund** · 08-21-2003, 06:58 PM

http://wingchunkwoon.com/tech.asp

There's another 2 clips also. The 1st one being the worst and Phil's 2 being nicer in my opinion.

Phil,

I said that particular usage was lame for a reason: Too far away to touch anything with the raised knee. I like technique. It's just the distance and idea behind it that I don't like. A lot of WC branches don't raise their knee much at all so I actually think TWC and HFY have one up on the more flat footed WC lines.

Thing is every TWC person I run into in Australia is very insular about their theory and very dismissive of any variation that differs from it. This thread is a good example. I SAID it was a good move and suggested the application that I prefer and some TWC guy immediately says that that it is wrong. For some reason, TWC would rather it only be used from way out of reach of any attack from the opponent and won't hear of anything else.

That IS lame compared to actually hitting someone with your knee when they try to kick you.

Originally posted by Miles Teg
Censored
Do you remember the thread on TWC anti grappling and the clip that went with it? Thats where I saw the hop knee entry thing. Go to that thread click on the link and there will be a bunch of clips to chose from. One of them has a guy kind of skipping to one side and entering with chain punching.

**Universal Stance** · 08-21-2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Edmund

Thing is every TWC person I run into in Australia is very insular about their theory and very dismissive of any variation that differs from it. This thread is a good example. I SAID it was a good move and suggested the application that I prefer and some TWC guy immediately says that that it is wrong. For some reason, TWC would rather it only be used from way out of reach of any attack from the opponent and won't hear of anything else.

That IS lame compared to actually hitting someone with your knee when they try to kick you.

1... I have a name and it's not 'some TWC guy'
2... I didn't post until the next day
3... The original question was about TWC. I assumed you were speaking about TWC.
4...

Not necessarily used a few feet away.

Best time is when they try to kick so it's within range of their kick.
The raised knee protects your leg/lower torso. Moving in allows you to jam their thigh with your knee.

Doesn't work so well just jumping from a distance when your opponent is not kicking. Use sparingly. As their thigh comes forward put your knee up to stop it. Otherwise stay on the ground.

Like I said you were off. Not totally wrong but not right either as pertaining to TWC.

5... I said you were off, not that you were wrong. It was a specific question, not about variations, not about being closed minded, not about whether it's lame or not.

Be easy.

BTW thanks to Sifu Redmond's and Sifu Parlati's technical responses. I'm only certified level 5 grade 0.

**Edmund** · 08-22-2003, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by Universal Stance

1... I have a name and it's not 'some TWC guy'
2... I didn't post until the next day
3... The original question was about TWC. I assumed you were speaking about TWC.
4... Like I said you were off. Not totally wrong but not right either as pertaining to TWC.

5... I said you were off, not that you were wrong. It was a specific question, not about variations, not about being closed minded, not about whether it's lame or not.

Be easy.

BTW thanks to Sifu Redmond's and Sifu Parlati's technical responses. I'm only certified level 5 grade 0.

The question was thrown open to anyone to explain it's use, TWC or not. I would not have replied otherwise.

**Phil Redmond** · 08-22-2003, 04:57 AM

My site was deveoped for my beginners in Wing Chun, Martial Artists from other styles, and people who have never studied MA before. The entry that you say is 'lousy" is simply one of our training drills with a cooperating partner that a beginner uses.Was it lousy because the guy just stood there or because Ryan entered from so far away. If so good. That's what I wanted to show. After practicing entering from a far distance and using proper form with a cooperating partner we add different dyanamics to the drill. Believe it or not the guy demonstrating can pull it off for real. If you will notice that he took his time to angle to the side before the entry. Showing an example for my students to view after class.
I'm not trying to show impressive fighting demos like some WC sites. My goal is to teach basics. An example of what I'm talking about is our SNT/SLT form. The lau sao, (slipping hand) is exaggerated for beginners. The circle should be tighter. I purposely had him start from far away to train bridging, timing, and to develop leg muscles. This is one of the ways we train the entry. I have had people email me regarding video clips saying that the attacker wasn't really trying to hit the person demonstrating the technique. Of coursr they're not really rying to hit each other. This reminds me of the reason people go to a car race or a Bullfight. Again, remember the video clips on my site are made to show techinques and training methods done in class. I never even consdiered making clips to impress other WC people before. Want to see real full contact sparring where an entry is sometimes used? Come to my school. Period.

**Universal Stance** · 08-22-2003, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by Edmund

The question was thrown open to anyone to explain it's use, TWC or not. I would not have replied otherwise.

The question was still about TWC. Reread the question please.

I have seen the entry techique (TWC's way) done in full speed and intention. The demos on Sifu Redmond's site are excellent but are obviously done in a manner for training purposes. To honestly think that the demos are how the technique is truly applied in real situations is not speaking very highly of yourself.

kj · 08-22-2003, 07:38 AM

Hey guys ... remember, no need to allow technical discussions to drift into something personal.

Kind Regards,
- kj

**Phil Redmond** · 08-22-2003, 08:20 AM

Hey guys ... remember, no need to allow technical discussions to drift into something personal.

That's why I'm leaving this one alone. Opinions vary.
Thanks for the reminder Kathy.

**old jong** · 08-22-2003, 08:25 AM

Funny how most will respect completely different martial arts and pick on a small variation in a system.

kj · 08-22-2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by Phil Redmond

That's why I'm leaving this one alone. Opinions vary.
Thanks for the reminder Kathy.

IMHO, you do an extraordinary job of finding the balance. Hats off to you, Phil

Regards,
- kj

**Universal Stance** · 08-22-2003, 08:46 AM

Oops! I didn't mean to write that last line... (I have no inner monologue). JK!.

I meant to say that to a person in general, not personally you Edmund. I apologize. Please change the last word 'yourself' to 'themselves'.

I shall punish myself with grueling training and no cookies....

**Savi** · 08-22-2003, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Universal Stance
I shall punish myself with grueling training and no cookies....

Don't be too harsh on yourself, you have to have cookies man!

**Edmund** · 08-22-2003, 04:55 PM

Phil, it's not just your clips. I appreciate that the purpose of the clips. The move has been shown and explained to me before in real life. I do full contact sparring by the way. (In fact one of my sidais won his first Muay Thai match a few weeks ago.)

You guys must be ignoring the parts where I say TWC has a very good technique. Prior to my post, others were saying it is bad to even raise your knee up to enter.

But yes, please continue focusing on my criticism of the details of the technique over other people's subtle flat out rejection of it because I used the word "lame".

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