Ng Mui Found!

[Phenix]

Ng Mui was found a while ago. From the white Crane of Fujian.
Believe it or not.

[yuanfen]

Hendrik?????????????

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Hendrik?????????????

hi joy,

Yes.

there is a very solid theory now on the running up of who probably is Ng Mui.

[yuanfen]

Details?????

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Details?????

Ng Mui is a special term in White Crane. And there is only one nun in White Crane family....

[yuanfen]

Hendrik- Interesting...very! What is special about the term?
Lots of styles claim roots in ng mui... but that does not surprise
me. See how in two generations how much fragmentation or diversity has taken place in contemporary wing chun.
Look also at taichi... chen, wu 1, wu2, yang, sun...

[S.Teebas]

Tell us everything you know please.

[reneritchie]

Hendrik is a d@mn cork teaser. Just tell them your research man!

Joy - Hendrik is looking into something where Ng Mui (five plums) was a term used to mean part of the structural alignment core of Fujian White Crane.

[Phenix]

Rene, Ok Ok.




the name Ng Mui if she belongs to Shao Lin or any Buddhist group... Rinzai... or anything... it has to follow some sort of sequence.
So why NG Mui five plum?


at my search, found out that,
There is a special term for Sanchin stance in Fujian white Crane.
The term is three points five plum flower or Sum Diem Ng Mui Fa.

So, if you pice it up. The name Ng Mui is not an accident. As for the Nun. Fong Wing Chun was a nun when she was young.
And if you look at the tale of burning of Shao Lin.... at Kang Xi...

all these add up to 1644's erra, the lost of Ming, the white crane master, The nun. and there is only one of such person exist in the world.

That was Fong Chat Niong, born in 1600's fujian, creator of White Crane, a nun, and san chin is her trade mark.----- Thus, using her trade mark, three point five plum flower's five plum as her qoute name.

Believe it or not. Now, those Shao Lin WCK historian has to explain the Art of Chisim...... to be fair right? And if NG Mui exist. So who is Chisim and what is his kung fu? Thus, Miu Shun also has to exist...

ok, you can argue, nah that is not Fong Chat-niong, but then you can't argue with me about the CO-INCIDENT of the three point five plum flower term exist in White Crane. It is a Facts.
OK may be not Fong Chat Niong herself, but ok, how about Tsen four, that guy is the decendent of Fong, traveling across China, open a tofu shop... you want more. hahahhha

hahahaha, Rene, you don't know how much I still have in my garage waiting there set up for Timely release. Similar to the Vitamin C which is time release in every 2 hours....
Now, I will go to China and dig out the Mummy of Wing Chun to prove you Wrong with your theory of no Wing Chun... ofcouse trying to blame on you on everything you do or you not. it is easy to blame and cut you down to make me famous.....hahahahaha

[chen zhen]

I didnt know Hendrik changed his name..

but interesting story anyway

[yuanfen]

Thanks for the heads up Rene. Hendrik is really a teaser. But his key board fingers work so fast that sometimes some things are not clear enough..

Hendrik- thanks much fo sharing... careful about wing chun's mummy... behind my old office was the Institute of Human Origins
and on some late nights me thought that "Lucy"( a protype of a first human ancestor) was knocking on my window. Creepy. Lucy was thus named aftera John Lennon song and I could hear or maybe thought I heard the faint sounds of "lucy in the sky with diamonds"!

The plum flower connection to white crane stancing is an interesting thesis. A transformed vestige remains in plum flower footwork.

But I dont know about the Fong Wing Chun connection. Some hung gar folks also refer to a fong wing chun- but I think that's a different fong. But I dont know Chinese- so what do I know.

Still -thanks--look forward to other linking-s.

joy
joy chaudhuri

[reneritchie]

Hendrik,

Interesting speculation. I'm not sure all of it follows (if you manage to identify a person as being Ng Mui, it doesn't naturally follow there must be a Miu Shun -- that would also have to be independantly verified).

So, to boil things down, you're going with the Fujian White Crane origin story of Feng Qiniang (Fong Chut-Neung, or Fong's 6th Daughter), aka Feng Yongchun (Fong Wing-Chun -- why, because of Wingchun county, Fujian?), and saying her specialty was San Dian Wu Meihua (Saam Dim Ng Mui Fa, or 3 Point 5 Plum Blossom), which earned her the nickname Wumei (Ng Mui)?

This story would then carry down to the WCK system as the Ng Mui, Yim Wingchun legend?

Interesting, but like with others, it would have to be sourced and then properly gone through in a step by step manner.

[reneritchie]

Joy,

Wing Chun, Hung Ga, and White Crane share almost exactly the same origin story just with variations of naming. Each one has a story where a young lady learns some type of crane art and marries a young man who helps her spread it (sometimes complicated with elements of avenging a murder, or fleshed out with her father, his knowing Tiger, or other components).

Yim Wing-Chun & Leung Bok-Lao
Fong Wing-Chun & Hung Hei-Goon
Fong Chut-Leung & Chen Jeung (? maybe remembering his name wrong)

[teazer]

Originally posted by Phenix
found out that,
There is a special term for Sanchin stance in Fujian white Crane.
The term is three points five plum flower or Sum Diem Ng Mui Fa.

Interesting thoughts. As a minor aside, did you by any chance pick up what the three points were?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Joy,

Wing Chun, Hung Ga, and White Crane share almost exactly the same origin story just with variations of naming. Each one has a story where a young lady learns some type of crane art and marries a young man who helps her spread it (sometimes complicated with elements of avenging a murder, or fleshed out with her father, his knowing Tiger, or other components).

Yim Wing-Chun & Leung Bok-Lao
Fong Wing-Chun & Hung Hei-Goon
Fong Chut-Leung & Chen Jeung (? maybe remembering his name wrong)

Hi Rene, Joy,

the Hung gar one is kind of shaws brother movies plots....

Fong Chut-Leung and Chen jeung all has the record in Fujian. and White crane of Fujian has 3 hundreds years of record. So no kidding.

As for the Ng Mui, well we find the 3 points five mui fa from the White Crane. as for the Miu Shun well we find the 12 zhuang kuits. Whether we can prof who are they? we might we might not be, depend on is ancestors going to lead me to place like dien Chun dang of Shang Hai again. But with evidents, solid evident. We can now conclude, SLT is the married of white crane and 12 zhuang, and WCK has to do with Ng Mu from the white crane side and Miu Shun for the 12 post side.

We know, White Crane and 12 post involve now. it is a matter of facts and it is going to get more and more interpolation data. No one will be able to deny it 20 years from today.

As for Yim Wing Chun, I belive she exist may be she might not know even martial art.

The reason is simple, SLT is not created by any kind of shao lin monks or advance alll those.. or a team.... no. it is not.

It is just a simple combination of Miu Shun whoever he is. after falling in love with White Crane's summon the sun, center and else concept. then, naturally merge his system with white crane. created the SLT set and system.
Then, from there it past down.

Now, what Miu Created is a set and some san sau. not as what we might believe is only san sau in the begining. this is because, if you look at White Crane, it comes with lots of san sau in the begining. as for 12 zhuang, it is a set since song dynasty. So, Miu with the influence of his original "set" type of system. and import the white crane san sau format created SLT and other san sau as explaination of usage. That is also the case of 12 zhuang and its 36 fingers technics. the 36 is applications while the 12 zhuang is the body. so there is the body and function, potential and capabilities.

That simple, then, it gets to Red boat , name it Yim's family Wing Chun. and from then. go through the painfull Taiping revolution, somebody involve with it, and then it passed to us.

Now, the name Yim Wing Chun actually should be written as the Last Name Yim and Yim Yee, the Wing Chun should be Eternal spring. Why? it is because Yim eng Chun is a polite way to called Madam Yim, the name Yim Eng Chun or evelasting spring from Yim family also can serve as differentiate the art from fujian due to they look similar. but one is past down by the Yim family.
Now, why she was called Yim Wing Chun and not Yim Chi similar to Hsu Chi. whoever her real name is? The reason is similar to Fong Wing Chun. We as chinese don't call her Fong Chat-Leong because that is impolite.
So we call her Fong Wing Chun. and the same with Yim Wing Chun.

Then, there comes the opera team and the people who train in it must be the man actor who play woman and so fort who is in the more schollar role then the more martial role. Now, they then called it Wing Chun as the praise the spring which might be related to the Dim Chun Dang of Shang Hai explaination. The art of the one who sing opera.

Very simple thing. and using the Discovery channel launguage, I would say, this is more likely since there are lots of indication and evidents which grouping tighter and tighter these days.

Then, certainly, history was made. more and more. because those who teaches it following the chinese patern of making bigger scene to promote the art.

See, may be we should ask those other historians who believe WCK is from Shao Lin..... to come up with the same amount of imformation to present.
if they can't but keep staying in the general chinese history level and hung mun level but not into specific technical term which can link up to 1644 and beyon then, they don't have it. and may be time to jump boat because the longer it drags the deeper it will be sinking. IMHO.

Just my two crazy cent. but as long as ancestors keeps feed me I will stay crazy. hahahaha