Ng Mui Found!

[reneritchie]

Duncan Leung is correct.

History is just easy to chat about online because you can't punch people over a network (yet).

[Chango]

Rollinghand,
I'm more the impressed with you knowlege of Ch'an. It brings a real voice of reason to this forum at times when things get crazy around here. Thanks for the kind words.

Sifu Chango Noaks

[Chango]

Rene wrote:History is just easy to chat about online because you can't punch people over a network (yet).

I have to say that if there was a danger of punching the traffic woudl be alot less by some. I guess I'm old school when I say "don't say anything on the web that you don't have the guts to say face to face." I firmly believe in "walking the walk". I believe a man that does battle and looses has far more honor then a man that runs his mouth and never backs up his words. Ok it won't make the halmark card section but it works for me on many levels.

See you later mate! you see Rene I have no business saying this LOL! A guy from the hood in the US has no business saying "mate." that's how your 80's rap lingo looks from here ROFLOL!
Remember this is all in good fun! even you should get a laugh at that!!!

Sifu Chango Noaks

In memory of post made by the one called "Geezer" a single AK siloute!

[canglong]

Originally posted by yuanfen
His fujian-emei-wc-ng mui-connections involve painstaking and on this forum largely thankless work. Lots of details to be filled in for it to be comprehensive...

Originally posted by Rene Ritchie
The vast majority of the raw material Hendrik posts is publically available to anyone willing to do the leg work

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
--Whenever Hendrik talks about things, there is nothing new under the sun, just blab...

Certainly nothing new about a white crane person with a white crane spin.

[reneritchie]

Chango,

I'm glad we can agree on something, and I admire your passion if not always its direction.

I grew up on rap, back in the day of Curtis Blow (is he still lost in the jungle?), and the true one and only GM--Flash, and can still drop the hard rhymes when needed, but then I was never one to constrain myself by artificial cultural boundaries. I'll even drive a German and Italian car if I *have* to, or use words like 'Sifu'.

So everything's apps. Easy now star. Cheers. 5000. Whatever.

Canglong,

I thought I smelled cabbage! (hee hee)

[bglenn]

the quality of ones kung fu system does not come from a B.S. storyfrom the past.NOBODY GIVES A D@MN!!!!

[planetwc]

By the way,

Someone forgot to inform 50 Cent that the term Homies is no longer used.

He only says it in his current album (on more than one song) and given he is the hottest Rap act on the planet, I guess that means Rene is au current in his use of the term.

For instance

http://lyrics.astraweb.com:2000/t5d....12..in_da_club

[PaulH]

Here is one of the reasons I'm interested in the Ng Mui story:

I want to understand more of the purpose of the SLT. Is it combat-oriented (my current view) or chan/philosophical/buddhist designed in origin?

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought. —Basho

Regards,

[planetwc]

On one hand the VTM or at least it's adherents wish it to be viewed as engaged in unbiased *research*, presented in a rigorous and scientific manner.

If someone disagrees with that research, why is it necessary to resort to personal attacks on that person?

It is Benny Meng and Richard Lowenhagen via their article in Kung Fu Magazine and articles on the VTM website which started the whole discussion in the first place. Those articles used the words "TRUE" history and eliminating "MYTH" and pro-offered HFY as the oldest Wing Chun system etc.

Others disagree with the premises in their article and can present their opinions just as much as the Benny and his students of the VTM can.

As part of that disagreement it is not necessary to ask what skill level Benny Meng has or if he can fight in terms of presenting HIS theories on the origins of Wing Chun.

Somehow disagreeing with the VTM is an ATTACK on the students who compose it's staff. It was the VTM staff by their own literal words which informed all the other Wing Chun families and lineages, that HFY was the one true source of Wing Chun Kuen and that other lineages origin histories were just myth.

How does attacking Hendrik Santo and asking him disparaging questions about his personal combat skills and lineage counter his theories?

If Hendrik were physically disabled in some fashion would that therefore mean that his IDEAS somehow held less value?

If the goal of the VTM is research based on academic displine and scientific rigor, then the notions of peer review and debate should not be alien concepts.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Here is my reason of my interest of the Ng Mui story:

I want to know more of the purpose of the SLT.

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought. —Basho

Regards,

Paul,

The next art I want to learn is,
to learn how to sing.

and I dream to get a great singing skill to be able to sing in the Fine Jade association for the ancestors in their yearly celebration.

I have also choose a song to sing. I might get rene's brother leonard richi to teach me to sing?


Here is the song I like to sing to Ng Mui, Miu Shun..... Wong wah boh.....




This is the song I like to sing certainly very different to those cantonese opera.




Starry, starry night
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze
Swirling clouds and violet haze
Reflect in Vincent's eyes of CHINA BLUE
Colours changing hue
Morning fields of amber grain
Weathered faces lined in pain
Are soothed beneath the artists' loving hand


Like the strangers that you've met
The ragged men in ragged clothes
The silver thorn of bloody rose
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow

Now I think I know
What you tried to say to me
And how you suffered for your sanity
And how you tried to set them free
They would not listen
They're not listening still
Perhaps they never will...

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

Do you know this song?

Twinkle, twinkle, siu nim tau,
How I wonder what you are.
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.
Twinkle, twinkle, siu nim tau,
How I wonder what you are!

When the blazing sun is gone,
When he nothing shines upon,
Then you show your little light,
Twinkle, twinkle, all the night.
Twinkle, twinkle, siu nim tau,
How I wonder what you are!

Then the traveler in the dark
Thanks you for your tiny spark;
He could not see which way to go,
If you did not twinkle so.
Twinkle, twinkle, siu nim tau,
How I wonder what you are!

It would help if genius like Van Gogh would descend down more to earth. Ha! Ha! For a starter, what are 3 points and 5 points of the plum flower? Clueless in LA.

Regards,

[Savi]

Originally posted by planetwc
If someone disagrees with that research, why is it necessary to resort to personal attacks on that person?

It isn't necessary at all, and the VTM has never in all its history ever done anything akin to such. I for one do not partake in attacking anybody, but only challenge their comments. If other people take it as an attack against themself as a person, that's not my problem. Your statement above seems like an attempt to encompass everyone of my family in the VTM and HFY. Although this might not be your intent, it's statements like the one above that leave yourself open to many rebuttles from many people. Let's be clear about who you are addressing to avoid past patterns.

Originally posted by planetwc
It is Benny Meng and Richard Lowenhagen via their article in Kung Fu Magazine and articles on the VTM website which started the whole discussion in the first place. Those articles used the words "TRUE" history and eliminating "MYTH" and pro-offered HFY as the oldest Wing Chun system etc.

So what is your point? Is that offensive to you? Hmmm, what is that you said in my other thread about defensive personalities? I wonder...

Originally posted by planetwc
Others disagree with the premises in their article and can present their opinions just as much as the Benny and his students of the VTM can.

What's your point here? That we all have free will? Or that you think the HFY family members who interact here don't know what free will is? Just a question.

Originally posted by planetwc
As part of that disagreement it is not necessary to ask what skill level Benny Meng has or if he can fight in terms of presenting HIS theories on the origins of Wing Chun.

OK... and?

Originally posted by planetwc
Somehow disagreeing with the VTM is an ATTACK on the students who compose it's staff. It was the VTM staff by their own literal words which informed all the other Wing Chun families and lineages, that HFY was the one true source of Wing Chun Kuen and that other lineages origin histories were just myth.

1. Your mixing up your apples with your oranges. Disagreeing with the VTM is not viewed as an ATTACK (like the caps?) on the students who compose its staff. Disagreeing with anybody using childish and offensive language would be insulting to anybody - which could very much be considered an attack. That is the difference.

2. Other lineages still maintain that their origins are still oral myths and legends. And to be clear, it is the Southern Shaolin Temple that is the origin of HFYWCK according to their documentation and research. Does that necessitate getting bent out of shape? If I say I have a gun, does that mean you don't? No.

Originally posted by planetwc
How does attacking Hendrik Santo and asking him disparaging questions about his personal combat skills and lineage counter his theories?

It doesn't. Those questions have nothing to do about his theories. They are off topic questions regarding comments Hendrik provided to Chango. Apples and oranges again.

Originally posted by planetwc
If Hendrik were physically disabled in some fashion would that therefore mean that his IDEAS somehow held less value?

What's the meaning of life? What does this have to do with the price of grass in the South Pole? The answer is N-O (as in NO).

Originally posted by planetwc
If the goal of the VTM is research based on academic displine and scientific rigor, then the notions of peer review and debate should not be alien concepts.

They aren't alien concepts, but keep in mind that the Wing Chun Forum does not serve as the VTM's source of peer review and debate. This forum is a you to me/them to us discussion board. The VTM is not involved in the use of this particular forum, other that personal use by some of its members.

[saifa5k]

An early "portrait" of Ng Mui....We have to consider the fact that Wing Chun was created a lot earlier in times than it was actually believed!


I think this is probably true. FWIW while looking through a book on Baugua (sp) the other day noticed they had the same "goat pinning stance" as in wing chun. Obviously goju's sanchin stance that admittedly derived from White Crane is also almost identical to the KYM stance of wing chun. Point being is that wing chun did not exist in a vacuum but was most likely connected to many other forms of kung fu.
Dave c

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,


It would help if genius like Van Gogh would descend down more to earth. Ha! Ha! For a starter, what are 3 points and 5 points of the plum flower? Clueless in LA.

Regards,

HI Paul,


You watch Grouchng Tiger and Hidden Dragon?


If the sky opened up for me,
And the mountains disappeared,
If the seas ran dry, turned to dust
And the sun refused to rise
I would still find my way,
By the light I see in your eyes.
The world I know fades away
But you stay.

As the earth reclaims its due,
And the cycle starts anew,
We'll stay, always ....

If the years take away
Every memory that I have
I would still know the way
That would lead me back to your side.
The North star may die
But the light that I see in your eyes
Will burn there always ...

When the forest turns to jade
And the stories that we've made.
Dissolve away
One shining light will still remain.



You don't need Genius, one only needs to know Chinese, read lots of books, make friends with lots of senior martial artists, and look into details.... everything is there.,,,,

22th Years of Kang Xi emperor, 1683, the 6th month, Kang Xi order Fujian's Navy general Sze Lang to attack Taiwan. the 8th month Sze Lang and Cheng Ke-Suang of Taiwan make peace (Cheng Surrender). Qing conquer , Taiwan joining back Main Land China, belong to a part of Fujian. Then the people of both side commuting back and forth freely. At that time,
Sze Lang brought a master name Bai Chieh back to fujian from Taiwan. Bai Go to Wing Chun (evelasting spring) teaching---
CHUN JING CHIE LIK (madarin)....


If you read chinese, evident is here too.
http://hk.geocities.com/yongchunwhitecrane/


So what it this CHUN JING CHIE LIK ?
in English it is INCH POWER(JING) JOIN POWER (LIK)

Where is the Sun Punch inch power or inch punch from Guess!


later, Some one sees there are ways to improve the Jing.....still a little Kang or hard at that time, IMHO.

So, the evolution continous.....
Next, the SLT ........

When, where ,who, how, what......
If we know the history, we know the JIng evolution, we know the details......, thus we can reproduce and continous the evolution.......
Fighting is All about generating power right? TNT atomic......




So, Let's start to interpolate. NG Mui, Inch power, more to come.......

If the seas ran dry, turned to dust
And the sun refused to rise
I would still find my way,
By the light I see in your eyes.
The world I know fades away
But you stay.


Well, you don't need Van to continous.... look into his China Blue eyes...... you see Miss Yim there?

[Train]

Planetwc,

Coming from reader's point of veiw, I think Hendrik words things inoppropriatly(sarcastic even). Sometimes i'm not sure what's Hendrik's intentions are. And, what's wrong with somebody defending their lineage and sifu? Do you agree? of coarse not, it seems like you already made up your mind on HFY and the VTM. ohhh wells

Savi,

Well said!!