Skeptical?

[yenhoi]

Im not sure why I wrote that here. Long hours at work that day?



At any rate, I dont think anyone can use science to "prove" anything, just as pointing out that the earth was once thought of as flat doesnt "prove" anything except people can be wrong.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

So basically you´re saying that there really is a separate,existing energy unknown to physics?

Not really, what i am asserting is that there is a single basic force/energy (Tao, if you choose.. or God, or Great Spirit, etc...).. that manifests itself in a "universe" of ways.. we discect it into many categories, many labels, but it has no concern for our contrivances.. (Lord, i just know there's a lecture about to unfold regarding the difference between force and energy.. just let it go..) What we debate here is the differing perspectives from which we experience this force/energy, some believing it must be measured to be valid.. others relying on direct experience..

Here, i might refer to Heisenberg's observations.. that the experience responds to the observer's beliefs.. further, that response corresponds to the sincerity and depth of the beliefs.. and, so it is, that we each will live out our lives content in our beliefs, creating our experiences consistant with our beliefs and we will likely not change the world.. (unless science finds another, even better, way to end life as we know it.. )..

Be well..

[Former castleva]

TCB,I can see your point now.That´s another realm you´re taking us to at this point,should this be your main point,it is correct IMO to posit that it goes beyond "measurement".

"Im not sure why I wrote that here. Long hours at work that day?"

[GeneChing]

So this'll do...

Homeopathy effective for 0 out of 68 illnesses, study finds
Treatment has 'no discernible convincing effects beyond placebo'
Siobhan Fenton @siobhanfenton Friday 19 February 2016775 comments


Homeopathy was described by the professor as a 'therapeutic dead-end' Getty Images

A leading scientist has declared homeopathy a "therapeutic dead-end" after a systematic review concluded the controversial treatment was no more effective than placebo drugs.

Professor Paul Glasziou, a leading academic in evidence based medicine at Bond University, was the chair of a working party by the National Health and Medical Research Council which was tasked with reviewing the evidence of 176 trials of homeopathy to establish if the treatment is valid.

A total of 57 systematic reviews, containing the 176 individual studies, focused on 68 different health conditions - and found there to be no evidence homeopathy was more effective than placebo on any.

Homeopathy is an alternative medicine based on the idea of diluting a substance in water. According to the NHS: “Practitioners believe that the more a substance is diluted in this way, the greater its power to treat symptoms. Many homeopathic remedies consist of substances that have been diluted many times in water until there is none or almost none of the original substance left.”

The review found “no discernible convincing effects beyond placebo” and concluded “there was no reliable evidence from research in humans that homeopathy was effective for treating the range of health conditions considered".

Writing in a blog for the British Medical Journal, Professor Glasziou states: “As chair of the working party which produced the report I was simply relieved that the arduous journey of sifting and synthesising the evidence was at an end. I had begun the journey with an ‘I don’t know attitude’, curious about whether this unlikely treatment could ever work… but I lost interest after looking at the 57 systematic reviews which contained 176 individual studies and finding no discernible convincing effects beyond placebo.”

He continues: “I can well understand why Samuel Hahnemann- the founder of homeopathy- was dissatisfied with the state of 18th century medicine’s practices, such as blood-letting and purging and tried to find a better alternative.

“But I would guess he would be disappointed by the collective failure of homeopathy to carry on his innovative investigations, but instead continue to pursue a therapeutic dead-end.”

In the UK, two NHS hospitals provide homeopathy, as well as a number of GP practices.

[SimonM]

Here, i might refer to Heisenberg's observations.. that the experience responds to the observer's beliefs.. further, that response corresponds to the sincerity and depth of the beliefs.. and, so it is, that we each will live out our lives content in our beliefs, creating our experiences consistant with our beliefs and we will likely not change the world.. (unless science finds another, even better, way to end life as we know it.. )..

Be well..

Just putting it out there that Heisenberg's uncertainty work had more to do with measurement than belief. IE: when you measure the location of a sub-atomic particle it affects its speed, when you measure the speed it affects its location. That's different than assuming reality to be consensual at a fundamental, cosmological level.

[Cataphract]

I don't think Bob was talking about the uncertainty principle. He just says that our beliefs shape the way we look at the world and how we draw conclusions.. I can only agree to that.

[GeneChing]

I'm disappointed that we don't have a thread dedicated to homeopathy here yet. Maybe I'll cobble one together if there's more news soon.

WHAT IS HOMEOPATHY? FDA MAY CRACK DOWN ON HIGH-RISK PRODUCTS
BY KATE SHERIDAN ON 12/18/17 AT 3:58 PM

Updated | The Food and Drug Administration released a new draft of guidelines on Monday for the agency's approach to enforcing regulations for some alternative medicine products.

The new guidelines appear to signal a shift toward more stringent regulations of high-risk products, including those with reported safety issues, items for children and the elderly and products that claim to treat serious conditions such as cancer. While homeopathic products are already subject to FDA regulations, the feds haven't approved any homeopathic drugs, suggesting the agency hasn't tested to see if data shows they are safe and effective.

In theory, homeopathy works based on the idea that disease can be treated with a substance that produces the same symptoms that a person is experiencing, known as "like cures like," according to the National Institute for Complementary and Integrative Medicine. Another key principle is that if a substance is diluted, it is actually more potent. However, there’s little scientific evidence that homeopathic drugs work.

A group that assesses evidence behind medical treatments found that there wasn't enough evidence to show that homeopathic remedies could treat asthma, dementia, ADHD or could induce labor. Some extremely limited evidence showed it might treat irritable bowel syndrome and that one homeopathic treatment might help relieve the side effects of cancer treatments.

This lack of evidence is one reason Britain's NHS no longer covers homeopathic treatments; The Guardian reported the health service's chief executive in England said that homeopathy is “at best a placebo and a misuse of scarce NHS funds.” An Australian government panel also couldn't find any evidence that homeopathy worked better than a placebo.

Nevertheless, these remedies have become exceedingly popular. Homeopathy is now a $3 billion a year business, according to the FDA’s press release. A national survey estimated that six million Americans, including more than one million children, may have used homeopathy in the past year.


Staff at Ainsworth Pharmacy make up homeopathic remedies on August 26, 2005, in London.
PETER MACDIARMID/GETTY IMAGES

“In recent years, we’ve seen a large uptick in products labeled as homeopathic that are being marketed for a wide array of diseases and conditions, from the common cold to cancer,” FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb stated in a press release announcing the proposed guidelines. “In many cases, people may be placing their trust and money in therapies that may bring little to no benefit in combating serious ailments, or worse—that may cause significant and even irreparable harm because the products are poorly manufactured, or contain active ingredients that aren’t adequately tested or disclosed to patients.”

This isn’t just a theoretical concern. A homeopathic teething remedy may have killed eight children because it was contaminated with a deadly plant called belladonna, STAT reported. Those teething tablets were specifically mentioned in Monday's announcement, along with other products.

The company that manufactured the tablets, Hyland’s, discontinued the product in October 2016 after an FDA warning about safety that impacted retailers' willingness to carry the tablets. “We are confident that any available Hyland’s teething products, including those you already have, are safe for use,” the company stated. “We are proud of our heritage and expertise in the manufacture and distribution of quality FDA-regulated homeopathic medicines. As such, we look forward to the future of homeopathic medicines as we work in partnership with the FDA.”

According to a statement from the American Association of Homeopathic Pharmacists, the organization "applauds the Agency’s plan to take quick action against illegal or unsafe homeopathic medicines." The statement noted "the draft guidance would not materially affect the vast majority of homeopathic drug products available in the United States." Hyland's spokesperson Mary Borneman told Newsweek the company did not have additional comments to add to the AAHP statement.

This article has been updated to include additional comments from Hyland's and the AAHP.