All Shaolin Do threads merged here, please use this thread

[rubthebuddha]

Originally posted by Radhnoti
His teachers have all had mullets.

best argument ever.

[Fu-Pow]

Actually my Sifu doesn't even sell Sai's. I don't know how those got in that picture. I recognize that set, they are actually some Sai's that a former Karate student left at our school. I think my Sifu may have put them in the picture to make it appear that we have more variety of weapons. What can I say....false advertising.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Serpent
If he was hiding the art's Chinese origins, why change the Dao to Do but leave in the word Shaolin!? That makes no sense at all.

Even if he called it Shorinji Do (which is Japanese for Shaolin Way) it would still mean that the art was CHinese. No one is so stupid as to think that it's no longer CHinese because the name is Japanese. It makes no sense at all.

Whooh...hooooh......the calvary has arrived.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Actually my Sifu doesn't even sell Sai's. I don't know how those got in that picture. I recognize that set, they are actually some Sai's that a former Karate student left at our school. I think my Sifu may have put them in the picture to make it appear that we have more variety of weapons. What can I say....false advertising.

Backpeddle, backpeddle, backpeddle.

It's on your site, so it must be true.

[Fu-Pow]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Evad
[B]I will respond to your research one by one as I have time. Also, I will make no claims against you that my rebuttals are absolute FACT, but I will maintain that what we contend with in our material is legitimately POSSIBLE.



Correction, you did not state accurately the 'account' of Grandmaster Ie. He was a monk at the temple with Su, however he did not 'learn all there was to learn and leave to teach in Singapore' he left the temple and continued to study with Su Kong for several years. After Su Kongs death and during the turbulent times in china with the Boxer Rebellion and the cultural revolution that would soon take place, Grand Master Ie and several of his new colleagues fled China to Indonesia.

***Could you be more specific and tell us what year that was?

MANY other masters of that generation fled China to foreign lands as well. It's a well known fact that during these chaotic decades in that country many masters and styles were destroyed or nearly destroyed. Martial arts training was banned after the communist's took control and whole family's and well known master's were labeled enemies of the state and imprisoned or put to death.

***That was in 1949 when the PRC took over.

A tremendous amount of 'traditional' knowledge and training techniques was forever lost with the passing of these great teachers. IT'S POSSIBLE, that GrandMaster Ie was a student of these old styles and training who escaped with some of his comtemporaries to Indonesia.

****OK...that I can buy. But the training claimed to take place at the Fukien Shaolin Temple which most likely was destroyed some 300 years ago. The dog face monk wasn't even born until 1850. How do you reconcile those dates?

Ok, you have stated that 'only recently has anything been found' that substantiates the existence of a southern temple. Master Sin has been stating it's existence since his first student in the '60's. This historical dispute is finally getting some recent attention, but Master Sin and no doubt many many others have maintained that there was indeed a temple in Fukien province and maybe only in legends. The truth is in the details and as such IT'S POSSIBLE that the archeological evidence may resolve the issue. If it is proven that a temple did exist and survived until 50-100 years ago, what then?

***My point is that it DIDN'T exist 50 or 100 years ago. According to the article that I'm citing, the archeologists predict that the temple was destroyed in the early Ching dynasty which is from 1644 to 1911. "Early" implies near the beginning ie around 1700.

Furthermore, if it had existed 50-100 years ago then people living in the area would have been able to identify it's location. That's only a few generations. They were not able to identify it's location and that was why this recent "discovery" was so exciting.

We will receive some small vindication. Neither of us are qualified enough to conclude based upon current research that it did or did not exist.

***It's pretty clear that the temple found at Fukien was the Southern Shaolin Temple. They've found all kinds of artifacts with Shaolin written on them and such.

Consider this....China was a great mystery to most of the world community until Richard Nixon opened the doors to the country with his visit as president. This means that a large part of what we know about China and it's history, it's local legends, etc is still in it's infantcy.

***The truth is that most WESTERNERS are ignorant of Chinese history. We can't read the language and so we can't read Chinese history books. And there are people who would profit off of that ignorance and make claims to "Shaolin" and **** like that. You know who I'm talking about of course.

Nearly one out of every six people in the WORLD are chinese. That's over a BILLION people with a BILLION different views. So how many of those BILLION people (or whatever the census was at the time) was living in the vicinity of the alleged temple?

***Lots. That's proves my point. If the temple was around 50-100 years ago as Shaolin Do claims then it is likely with so many people that someone would have remembered its former location. Go back 300 years (when the temple was probably destroyed) and this becomes a lot less likely.

How many of those 'local's that survived the upheaval of their society remember the temple that are untraceable today? Of those that knew anything about the temple, would they be eager to speak up and be noticed, or would they deny knowledge in order to remain safe from the 'cleansing' that was taking place all around them?

**That's a convenient argument.

According the stories about Su Kong it is said that they were tipped off that they were about to be beseiged and destroyed, and it was decided that rather than let that happen, they would voluntarily flee the temple and destroy it themselves. IT'S POSSIBLE, if the temple survived until the late 1800's early 1900's that after it's destruction, something else could have been built on top of it's location.

***But it wasn't. They found the temple.

China has a population explosion going on at the time that requires a lot of valuable space. Current archeological research is looking for something 'old' and IT'S POSSIBLE that no one is looking for something 'recent.' Maybe the temple existed during the Ching dynasty was destroyed and then rebuilt at a new secret and secluded location that survived until recent times. Why would anyone want to reestablish a temple (that was destroyed) in a known location and chance being destroyed again? Makes sense to relocate and take extra security measures to protect the new temple and remain safe.

***Maybe, maybe, maybe.

This is all hypothetical and serves only to illustrate that IT IS A POSSIBILITY that we just flat out don't know the details of a fukien temple.

***Again I ask you then. Where was the temple where the dog face monk and Ie Chang Ming trained?

[Fu-Pow]

I accept the challenge.

Let me give you my stats:

I'm 6'7" inches tall.

I weigh 235.

And I'm not a leggy basketball player type, I'm very proportional.

I'm very flexible and can do the splits both ways.

I'm instructor level and have trained in CLF for 7 years and Chen Taiji for 5 years. Before that I studied Hung Ga for 1 year.

I took a 16 hour Chi Na seminar so I know a lot of great pressure points.

You still wanna play?

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen


Backpeddle, backpeddle, backpeddle.

It's on your site, so it must be true.

Wow...you really proved a big point.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
I accept the challenge.

Let me give you my stats:

I'm 6'7" inches tall.

Really? You type like you 5' 3"

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Wow...you really proved a big point.

Just following your example. You can learn all you need to know about another's MA from their internet site.

[BentMonk]

JP - That was just plain funny son. roflmao

[dezhen2001]

as far as i know southern mantis (chow gar) also uses sai, as well as Joedoes 5 ancestors

dawood

[BentMonk]

One final thought on FuPow. For as much shiat as he talks, I would pay good money to see him cross hands w/Master Mullins, Master Schaefer, Master Price, Master Gray, Master Leonard, Rob, Reggie, the list goes on. Although not a single one of the people I've named would give a !@#% about ANY of the stuff on this board, the lesson in humility that would be taught would be enough to inspire a new "Priceless" commercial. 6'7 huh? They're stacking it pretty high these days.

[Crimson Phoenix]

And Fukien White Crane as well...
regarding that, Yang Jwing Ming specifically states it is a weapon of chinese origin...
*disgression over*

[Judge Pen]

I've sparred Master Mullins and the man is good (read phenominal). I would like to think that he could take FP but FP may in fact be a MA prodigy who likes to talk crap. Who knows? I only have half the information needed to give an opinion.

[MasterKiller]

JP,
That's my point. When it comes to trash talking, we should really only speak for ourselves.

Tossing out names of people who could beat Fu-Pow is like that crappy FSU National Title where Notre Dame beat FSU, but lost to Boston College, but FSU lost to ND and beat Boston College, so FSU wins the title because they beat the team that beat the team that beat them, even though they lost the head to head with ND.