what should you do if someone gets you in a bear hug from either the front or the back with your arm

[Merryprankster]

I agree that I wouldn't headbutt, but I don't do Kung Fu. I come to this forum because I find it to be more to my taste than some others, and I didn't want to upset anybody by saying that I didn't think a headbutt was a good idea. My background is Wrestling and BJJ with a SMALL amount of Muay Thai thrown in, so I didn't want to speak out of my area of knowledge.

I also agree that getting the air squeezed out of your lungs is a silly worry. What is the attacker, a hydraulic press? :)

I have to disagree on the grapevining though. If the guy has already lifted you and is trying to toss you, a grapevine might work. Just like anything, there is a time and place for it. It won't always work, but it's nice to have in your toolbox.

I'm seeing a lot of knee to the groin answers here. I don't like that solution. If your attacker has lifted you, it's not just a heave ho. That means his hips are in TIGHT to your body in some way. It's going to be extremely difficult to create enough space to knee somebody effectively before they put you down. Mostly, you'll "thigh" them in the groin, and I can attest to the fact that that doesn't hurt much.

Tigerdragon, could you expound upon your explanation at all? I'm having a difficult time envisioning a successful version of it.

[This message was edited by Merryprankster on 03-29-01 at 08:22 AM.]

[Tigerdragon]

Ok first I want to clairify that from the front a knee will work because....you should throw it BEFORE he actually lifts you or JUST as he begins to lift you (this would use his own force against him. If someone attacks you from the front and can bear hug and lift you befor you do anything....you are way to slow and better start training harder. Just my oppinion.

As for the BH from behind. In most cases by the time you start to react, since it is an attack from behind, he has already started lifting you. When this happens its usualy your insting to raise your knees tword your chest, and if not conciously do it(this acts as sort of a counter weight and momentarily makes you heavier). At this point, throw your head and shoulders forward as best you can and your legs back to the ground. This WILL bring you back to the ground unless this guy is Andre the giant or someone who is just abnormaly strong. At the moment your feet make contact to the ground force your shoulders down and out and shoot your arms straint out as if dound a two hand punch to the chest of someone in front of you as you step back with one foot at the same time. This will break his hold. Now twist into a 50/50 stance (neutral bow or even a horse) into him which will cause you to bump him with your shoulder, and he will be slightly off balance (hopefully), and throw an elbow at the same time. The procces of when your arms shoot forward all the way to the elbow should be VERY fast and fluid. your arms should be like a rubbe band....its stretches forward (breaking the hold) then snaps back into the elbow.

This does work, it has worked for me when wrestng with my friends (of course i used a tricept hit instead of an elbow then so it would be more of a push and wouldn't hurt him badly)

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

[Merryprankster]

Tiger,

That makes sense. Agreed that a knee might end it BEFORE they lift you up. Just for the record though, somebody attacking you from the front with a bear hug isn't necessarily some big dumb mook. There are many ways to achieve a waist clinch/bodylock besides the "I have the arms out, look at me, here I come," method. Being "way too slow" isn't necessarily part of the equation.

It sounds like it's based on similar principles, just the specifics are different. I'm glad it works for you, but I have to say that if I felt somebody raise their knees like you described, I would immediately try for a move similar to a modified Ura Nage/Suplesse (Throw you over my back/to the side). It's true that you would be heavier in my ARMS, but you are also balled up for an instant, placing more of your weight above/closer to my hips, making it easier for me to throw you.

That said, I have one rule: "If it works, it wasn't stupid." It might not be standard, or "what I would do," but all that means is that general principles have been successfully applied to overcome a specific situation.

[JerryLove]

"When this happens its usualy your insting to raise your knees tword your chest, and if not conciously do it(this acts as sort of a counter weight and momentarily makes you heavier)."

With all the inertia going I doubt the success. When you try this, is your partner aggressively tring to toss you over his back (e.g. is he trying to win)?

"At the moment your feet make contact to the ground force your shoulders down and out and shoot your arms straint out as if dound a two hand punch to the chest of someone in front of you as you step back with one foot at the same time."

And if he is aggressively trying to maintain the hold, and your thecnique worked, he now has you by the neck instead of the chest. Further, I would say that he failed to hug close enough to you, he should have followed your body forward.

" This will break his hold. Now twist into a 50/50 stance (neutral bow or even a horse) into him which will cause you to bump him with your shoulder, and he will be slightly off balance (hopefully),"

Unless he is in the process of advancing and squeezing your neck. Again, try this with an opponent who is attempting to win.

"This does work, it has worked for me when wrestng with my friends (of course i used a tricept hit instead of an elbow then so it would be more of a push and wouldn't hurt him badly)"

And on a counternote, I've seen it defeated.

"Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready"

Agreed.

[devere]

I had a buddy who's a bouncer do this to me and he asked me the same question cause he's thrown guys out of bars this way. I couldn't head butt him cause he kept his face back and I couldn't get my leg wrapped around his to flip him over mine because he had me in the air. The one weak point to this is the knees. Back kick and dislocate his kneecap. He'll probably put you down then.

[frosh2786]

back kick in the balls?

[Tigerdragon]

Of course this has been defeated. There is no "sure fire" way to counter anything. And yes he was trying to win. Mind you we were doing this on a mat so that neither one of us was really worried about getting hurt by being thrown.

As far as his hands being at your neck, no they won't. Remember, he is squezzing in and pulling up. In order to pin someone's arms in a bear hug you usualy grab around the lower chest earea to pin the arms near the albows. (I'm assuming this is the grab meant in the scenerio for this thread). So using the down and out angles, you just break his hold and force his arms out to the sides. Yes when you do this his upper body will come forward. This is where the legg comes in. When you step back as you shoot your arms forward, it makes for a longer reach for him and stretches him out, weakening his power base. On a side note, when you kick down to the ground you may even get lucking and land on his foot, possibly breaking it. This will have a bit of an effect too. But that is more ov an incidental hit then an aimed hit.

Now I know this will not always work. I even admitted in my previous post that some people, who are extreamly strong can still hold on or even follow through with the throw regaurdless if you do this or not. However in my oppinion it is better then using a headbutt or not doing anything at all.

MerryPrankster,
As far as being too slow, yes its true there are other ways to get to a bear hug other then strait forward arms out. But the way I see it is, if you let him get that far, he is probably morse skilled and you will probably loose anyway.

Just my 2 cents

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

[Tigerdragon]

a back kick to the jewls wouldn't really work. You can't really reach that spot from a back BH. His hips are going to be at about the same hight as yours and too close in to get your foot up there. I like the suggestion of hitting the kneecap...ouch

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

[Merryprankster]

Ok, fair enough Tigerdragon.

Regards,

James

[house of chang]

definitely try kicking vulnerable targets (knees, groin).

take a fingernail and jam it hard underneath the cuticle of one of their fingers. guaranteed, they'll let go.

through it all, you definitely wanna stay relaxed.

peace...

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Martial Ethics Method