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Thread: Carlos Castaneda Meets Martial Arts

  1. #1

    The Magic Martial Art: Pencak Silat

    If you are at all familiar with Pencak Silat then you have heard at some point about its strong roots in mysticism. This site, under the articles section, gives some really interesting first-hand accounts about the style's magical practices. I dont vouch for the validity of the stories, I just wanted to share with those who might be interested.
    Most of the articles under Pendekar Sanders involves the experiences he had with the spiritual aspect of Pencak Silat. The other articles are interesting as well. In particular check out The Eleven Principles of Destruction, as it goes into detail about many of the types of 'flow' and attitudes of the style.

    http://www.cimande.com/writings/index_articles.htm


    http://www.cimande.com/writings/other/principles.htm
    Last edited by Raatra; 09-03-2003 at 08:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Im really interested in what you guys think about aspects such as these in relation to the martial arts. What are your opinions?

  3. #3
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    Deep, rich and beautiful. I'll spend some time reading the rest of the articles but thanks for the links. Great stuff.
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  4. #4
    Here are some decent clips of Silat in action.

    http://www.cimandecombat.com/loudbabycart/index2.html

    The fluency of the style is basically the root of what i am training for.

  5. #5
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    Unhappy Raatra

    and you seriously expect to be able to defend yourself properly with this stuff?
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  6. #6
    What aspect of the "stuff" are you talking about Willow Sword?

  7. #7
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    Thumbs down all aspects Raatra

    I looked at those vid clips and began to see the false sense of security being initialized with those movements. i saw how legs could get swept out from under you. i saw how straight punches could go straight through those movements, and i saw how a grappler could easily take down and choke out any of those people. i even saw how a straight kick could penetrate and damage internal organs whilst theyre moving around like they had bad chutney for lunch.
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  8. #8
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    TWS

    You're kidding, right? Just trolling or something? Either that or the real, false sense of security shows in your comments. Are your observations about the people at this site or Silat in general? I assure you, these guys are well trained and documented by the tops in the world. Silat is one of the deepest systems you will find. No joke, These are the last people I would under-estimate. If you understand those clips, you saw some serious ground fighting ability, agile footwork with almost bagua-esqe, circular and angular attacks. I doubt you could lay a hand on one of these guys let alone a staight on front punch or kick. But if you did, I doubt it would be very effective. I've seen one of the instuctors mentioned take full on swings with a baseball bat to his shins. I doubt your "shaolin do" front punch would do the trick.

    Raatra, here is another Silat link for good information. http://www.mubai.cc/home.htm These guys in Taiwan are no bullshit either.
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  9. #9
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    william sanders took silat and combined it with aleister crowley / o.t.o. (ordo templi orientis) stuff. - hence the use of the spelling, "magick", rather than the conventional "magic".

    do u think traditional silat had ties to the o.t.o. ?

    ... this is not to say that religion or mystical practices have no place in silat. - indonesian culture has a rich spiritual tradition that's intertwined with their everyday lives.


    i haven't seen the clips, but, i have his book, principles of destruction, and fighting magick v.1+2, and i have to admit, he often looks very awkward, and i don't think he well represents the real beauty of the art... but don't judge a whole multitude of systems based on some 2 second clips of one particular practitioner.

    walk a mile in the shoes and then tell me again what u think of silat. (but do it after u find a shoe that fits.)
    The more you know the less you need to show.

    May you be filled with loving kindness.
    May you be well.
    May you be peaceful and at ease.
    May you be happy.

  10. #10
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    Ma Fu Yee

    Check out the forms clips at the first site mentioned and let me know what you think. Also check out the video at the link I gave of self defense and knife defense. It's some good shit.
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  11. #11
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    Lightbulb lets look at it from a perspective of reality

    first of all you have the "magic" reference put in to this "fighting art". heres a wake up call: THERE IS NO MAGIC ASSOCIATED WITH FIGHTING AND HARMING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

    second of all, the movements look like some ritualized form of dance rather than practical, SIMPLE, and effective means of defending oneself should they ever have to.

    i think that its fun to fantasize about how we can study an "ancient cultures'" form of fighting and somehow have this magical ability to defeat an opponent with movements that waste energy and time. When it comes to the brass tacks of fighting i rarely see ANY of the techniques that are taught in schools actually utilized.
    its really funny actually that you see someone do this really beautiful form of interpretive dance, call it martial arts, and when they actually fight one does not see this beautiful form in action, what you see is fists flying grabbing throwing to the ground, you see the reverting to the SIMPLEST way to defeat someone and it has no elements of the dance form, AT ALL.
    Look at the UFC and PRIDE and some of the san sou tournaments i have watched in asia. we see the same thing over and over again.
    count: my stay at SD DID actually teach me some good stuff and at times i have had to put it to good and effective use but when i did do it i wasnt prancing around. i have had my share of defeats and victories with what i have studied and practiced. and from an internalists' perspective count, YOU should know as well as I that it is the SIMPLE things that prevail over the complex and difficult.
    Alot of what the forms and routines are in certain martial systems are ways to strengthen your internal self and to keep the body fit. but in all the years that i have seen fights and have been in fights(not claiming to be a master here) it has boiled down to the simple and straight forward.
    i had to learn this from many people including reemul who handed me my a$$. doesnt mean that what i studied wasnt effective, it meant that i was too much in my head rather than on my center and i think thats where alot of these obscure martial systems like silat put you, is in your head, thinking that by practicing some form of ritual and mysticism that you can miraculously win a fight by doing techniques shown in those vids.
    Hey these are just my opinions here, and i think that i am entitled to them, this is a forum of discussion and debate and i am not trolling.
    TWS
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  12. #12
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    those last clips of the muslim guys on the rooftop, not impressed. Anyone with a little indo/filipino training can make someone with little or no training look helpless. I just saw some pretty pathetic flow almost no technique. The last clip, still laughing about that one

    Oh and to TWS
    Search out a good silat school and challenge someone. Your opinion will quickly change. All aspects of training have a purpose, even if someone cannot precieve it. My experience with silat is this,,nothing comes forward. There is no ring sport aspect, no I hit you, you block, you counter, I block I counter...
    The dance like juru's lead to and teach better body mechanics, they teach the flow, they are not fighting, but will make you a better fighter. Much like how ballet can make you a better running back.
    Last edited by Taomonkey; 09-04-2003 at 10:26 AM.
    At a boy Luther!!!!

  13. #13
    "Castaneda Meets Martial Arts"

    So you're saying these guys made up their martial arts? ahahaha

    Originally posted by MaFuYee
    william sanders took silat and combined it with aleister crowley / o.t.o.
    Are you serious? Do you mean Sanders was specifically into the OTO, or are you talking in general here?

  14. #14
    Id like to say i respect your opinion Willow Sword, but its difficult to do so with your arrogant attitude. Also, to dismiss an entire culture's martial and spiritual way of life simply because it hasnt been on display in front of some drunken rednecks during PRIDE or UFC just outright ****es me off. Im sorry but you need a nice dose of humility. I know for a fact you wouldnt act like this if you were in my presence. The internet provides a nice safe place for comments like that. I was just trying to share an interesting and often unheard of style with you all, and you have to come start $hit.

    Did i say i endorse anything on the site? No. I said i advocated the flow of the system and thought the article on the 11 principles of destruction was good. Do i think silat is combat effective? Absolutely. Are the people in those clips fighting? No. They are practicing what my friend's teacher would call "flowing", basically an energy exercise similar to push hands but not entirely. In light of this, do you think before you open your mouth? No.

  15. #15
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    Thumbs down raatra

    i am just providing a debate for you based on what you have shown and put forth to the forum. now YOU are getting angry and "pi$$ed off" as you put it.
    You can percieve what i write as arrogance but maybe if you looked at it from an objective point of view you would see the practicality in what i am writing.
    and yes this is a safe haven for people to come a discuss thier views and opinions with out having to deal with someone ultimately personalizing and getting all egotisitcal and wanting to fight to prove wrong or right. i went down that road and now have evolved past it. have you? maybe not.
    and since you eloquently made your stance clear about how you feel about the UFC and pride competitions, then why not prove yourself right about what you have learned and go enter a ufc or pride competition. who needs the humility here? maybe you do Raatra.

    and to make the reference to "carlos castenada meets martial arts?" have you even read carlos castenadas writings? i sure have and there is nothing that rings of fighting in his books, not that it relates AT ALL to silat or its "mysticism". i would make the statement that carlos castenada and his teacher "don juan" evolved and transcended past this need to get your rocks off by cultiviating your "mystic beliefs" and "spirituality" for kicking A$$.
    read journey to ixtlan or fire from within or even the eagles gift and you will understand what i am talking about.

    TWS
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

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