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Thread: Is the closet path between two points is a straight line?

  1. #1

    Is the closet path between two points is a straight line?

    Is the closet path between two points is a straight line?

    It is partially correct but not necessary.


    Let's get Sun Tzu ..


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    The difficulty of tactical maneuvering consists in turning the devious into the direct, and misfortune into gain.

    [This sentence contains one of those highly condensed and somewhat enigmatical expressions of which Sun Tzu is so fond. This is how it is explained by Ts`ao Kung: "Make it appear that you are a long way off, then cover the distance rapidly and arrive o n the scene before your opponent." Tu Mu says: "Hoodwink the enemy, so that he may be remiss and leisurely while you are dashing along with utmost speed." Ho Shih gives a slightly different turn: "Although you may have difficult ground to traverse and natural obstacles to encounter this is a drawback which can be turned into actual advantage by celerity of movement." Signal examples of this saying are afforded by the two famous passages across the Alps--that of Hannibal, which laid Italy at his mercy, and that of Napoleon two thousand years later, which resulted in the great victory of Marengo.]


    Thus, to take a long and circuitous route, after enticing the enemy out of the way, and though starting after him, to contrive to reach the goal before him, shows knowledge of the artifice of DEVIATION.
    [Tu Mu cites the famous march of Chao She in 270 B.C. to relieve the town of O-yu, which was closely invested by a Ch`in army. The King of Chao first consulted Lien P`o on the advisability of attempting a relief, but the latter thought the distance too great, and the intervening country too rugged and difficult. His Majesty then turned to Chao She, who fully admitted the hazardous nature of the march, but finally said: "We shall be like two rats fighting in a whole--and the pluckier one will win!" S o he left the capital with his army, but had only gone a distance of 30 LI when he stopped and began throwing up entrenchments. For 28 days he continued strengthening his fortifications, and took care that spies should carry the intelligence to the enemy. The Ch`in general was overjoyed, and attributed his adversary's tardiness to the fact that the beleaguered city was in the Han State, and thus not actually part of Chao territory. But the spies had no sooner departed than Chao She began a forced march lasting for two days and one night, and arrive on the scene of action with such astonishing rapidity that he was able to occupy a commanding position on the "North hill" before the enemy had got wind of his movements. A crushing defeat fo llowed for the Ch`in forces, who were obliged to raise the siege of O-yu in all haste and retreat across the border.]


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    turning the devious into the direct, and misfortune into gain. Is the core of the art. closest path between to point or not is secondary....
    Thus, one needs awareness ---- there is a different between traveling in land or sea or air.

    Any paradiagm shift? no, it is an evolution. WCK is an evulotion.
    and Qing genearl knows Sun Tzu better then the Ming, thus they win.

  2. #2
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    If you're talking about in our universe, it's a straight line.

    If you're talking about distorting time and space, then it may not be.

    But I'm not good enough to mess with time and space yet, so I'll stick to a straight line.

    IronFist
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
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  3. #3
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    Hendrik--


    wing chun paradox. Circles and lines are interelated. One masks the other.

    On Sun Tzu- India learned a brutal lesson in the 1962 Chinese invasion in the Northeast. With the historic confidence in the Himalayas asa natural boundary- the Chinese moved fast over rugged terrain and entered the Brahma putra River valley.
    The Himalyas are the highest mountain range in the world.

    One of the great inaccurate over-generalizations about wing chun- is that it is a linear art.

  4. #4
    Originally posted by IronFist
    If you're talking about in our universe, it's a straight line.

    IronFist

    Han Fei the advisor of the emperor who get the Great wall to be this huge once told the emperor.... If you wait for a straight bambo to make an arrow. then you might have to wait for a few hundred of years and still may be you won't get it.

    IN the cosmos, what is straight?

  5. #5
    Joy,

    Yup using the weakness as the strenght . that is the closest.
    army will move in because they think one is weak there. army will not suspect the attack because they think himalayas is very very not likely......

    so, wck get close... the closes of the two point is the enermy move in thinking it is a weakness but it is a trap... thus weak defeat strong and slow defeat fast..

  6. #6
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    About that bamboo arrow thing... yeah, there are no naturally occuring straight lines in nature.

    What's your point? Wing Chun isn't a plant or a piece of nature, it's an intangible art form.

    If you're talking about 2 or 3 dimensional math, a straight line IS the shortest distance between two points.

    Therefore, the shortest distance between my fist and your face is a straight line. You asked about physics, not strategy. The straight line may not be the most succesful route, but it is the shortest distance.

    IronFist
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  7. #7
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    Is the closet path between two points is a straight line? It is partially correct but not necessary.

    Partially Correct??? What?? are you going against science? That's a scientific fact.

    I usually keep things simple when i do WC. I think you have a bit too much time on your hands Hendrik hehe But it's not a bad thing though.......

    Peace out!!
    why don't somebody take a 45 and bang! settle it?

  8. #8
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    Closet?

    originally posted by Phenix
    Is the closet path between two points is a straight line?
    I never heard of the closet path before. Isn't a closet an enclosed space where things are stored? Just kidding... Even still the closest path does not make sense. What do you mean by closest? As in shortest?

    The SHORTEST path between two points of reference would be illustrated with a straight line - IF you are ignoring the terrain. If there is an obstacle in your way, what is the next shortest path to the target? Might be a curve. You might have to move the originating point from where you began. It might be a wave, an S-curve. Who knows, too many variables. You will only know when you have to do it. Then you will find if your solution was correct or not.

    ON THE OTHER HAND...

    By the posed question, I am to assume you think Wing Chun is scientifically oriented; or that Wing Chun is based on math? Wait, aren't math and science (well, certain fields of it) symbiotes? No wait, it's based on concepts. Then again, concepts come from scientifically oriented minds which begin with theories. Concepts have a relationship to principles, oh and then on to idioms, and possibly strategies and tactics, and IF AT ALL POSSIBLE a formula... wow, just can't get away from science can we? Is there any way around it? Bah, in any case Wing Chun isn't a science, no wait it is... the voices in my head won't stop... how fun this is!

    "Here's a banana, now eat!"
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  9. #9
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    On a 2 dimensional plane the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. But in a 3 dimensional world, that we live in, there are other factors to consider so the shortest distance may not be straight

    If you wait for a straight bambo to make an arrow. then you might have to wait for a few hundred of years and still may be you won't get it.
    Phenix -
    To make an arrow you take a less than straight stick or bamboo, and using heat and weakness' in the wood, bend it straight to make the arrow. I don't think the Emporer was telling his subject to shoot with a crooked arrow. But to take what resources he had available and make them fit into the model he needed. In this case take a crooked piece of bamboo and manipulate it into a straight arrow.
    Last edited by Gandolf269; 09-06-2003 at 01:55 PM.
    ____________
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  10. #10

    Re: Closet?

    Great post savi,

    Thanks for correcting my english.



    If memory serve, Sun Tzu Pin Fa is translated as The ART of War. Not the Science of WAR.

    May be after the MIng Generals get beat or buy out by the Qing, Some monks or some non buddhist monks created the Science of war.
    That is very possible and interesting.
    Or may be some of them fleed to USA and after study in the university create the Science of war based on thier own ideas.

    But, My interest is in The ART of WAR by Sun Tzu not the SCience of WAR.
    Last edited by Phenix; 09-06-2003 at 02:01 PM.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Gandolf269


    Phenix -
    To make an arrow you take a less than straight stick or bamboo, and using heat and weakness' in the wood, bend it straight to make the arrow. I don't think the Emporer was telling his subject to shoot with a crooked arrow. But to take what resources he had available and make them fit into the model he needed. In this case take a crooked piece of bamboo and manipulate it into a straight arrow.


    Thanks.
    I agree with you.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by Train
    Is the closet path between two points is a straight line? It is partially correct but not necessary.

    Partially Correct??? What?? are you going against science? That's a scientific fact.

    I usually keep things simple when i do WC. I think you have a bit too much time on your hands Hendrik hehe But it's not a bad thing though.......

    Peace out!!



    Sure, keep things simple is the greatest.

    As for If I have a bit too much time on my hands you seems to concern that the more I post the more no one will believe you? hahahaha


    as for against science? who's science? how and when Chan becomes Science?
    Last edited by Phenix; 09-06-2003 at 02:37 PM.

  13. #13
    Therefore, the shortest distance between my fist and your face is a straight line. ---IRON FIST


    True.





    You asked about physics, not strategy. --- IRON FIST

    Do I asked this way? I didn't see it in my post.


    The straight line may not be the most succesful route, but it is the shortest distance. --IRON FIST


    True.
    Last edited by Phenix; 09-06-2003 at 02:29 PM.

  14. #14
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    the shortest path between two points is indeed a straight line. however when these points are moving things get fishy.

    continuously trying to find the shortest distance with two moving points can lead to a curve. one upping the other point and traveling in a straight line to where its going and getting there first is the way to go.

    the circle can fuel the line and the line can fuel the circle. what's a curve to your point of view may by a line because of movement.
    Travis

    structure in motion

  15. #15
    TjD,

    you are right.





    however,
    Do we really care is it a line or a circle?
    or beat to death the shortest or Closest or closet?

    or it is about effectiveness and efficientcy?
    and how to implement that?

    Who doesn't know how to aim a punch when punching? and is that WCK?

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