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Thread: who said its cheating?

  1. #46
    "Bushido's just a recent invention. It's as much romanced as western chivalry is. There is no honor in the battlefield, where honor can equal death"


    There's a lot of misconception on what "bushido" and "chivalry" historically were here on this board.....

    Bushido was not a recent invention. The word "bushido" is more modern, but the behavior "ethics" of the warrior class/retainers in old Japan were a very historical aspect of the culture dating back way before the 15th century.

    During WW2, the Japanese "ressurrected" a twisted set of ideals and referred to it as bushido to really drive home a sense of national pride. But those ideas were not "bushido" as defined in some of the old texts, etc.

    "chivalric" codes of olden eras were NOT designed to make you fight fair in war and therefor lose......how silly.

    They were, and I repeat, behavioral "ethics" that the top soldiers were supposed to consider and practice so that the lords they served were not defamed from the actions of their soldiers.

    Bushido and Chivalry were NOT about bowing to your enemy in war, and dueling in a fair fight.
    The ideas were mostly about how to conduct oneself in regards to your king/lord, ladies of the court, the public, and how one dealt with such things as slander, backbiting, etc.

    Many did NOT follow such ideals....
    but those ideals were as real during the time as war was. It just wasn't the type of thing people think of now a days.

    These people were professional soldiers....why on earth would a soldiers "behavior ethic" constitute a philosophy that would hurt their chances of winning a war???

    The information is all there. Go look for it.

    Ryu
    "No judo! NO NO!"




    "One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

    Attain your highest ability, and continue past it. Emotion becomes movement. Express that which makes you; which guides you. Movement and Mind without hesitation. Physical spirituality...
    This is Jeet Kune Do....

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    Ryu has caught the correct and is now the correct version of Typhoid Mary.
    "Oh LORD, please spare our eyes"- Traditional Prayer before an English Singlestick Match

  3. #48
    Join Date
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    CrippledAvenger has taken the humorous invention of correct as a venerial disease, raped it, peed on it, and beat the **** out of it with an ugly branch.

    BreakProof BackŪ Back Health & Athletic Performance
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    "Who dies first," he mumbled through smashed and bloody lips.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    Paris, France
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    Ryu, well, I came across different affirmations during my research, mostly by japanese scholars like Kenji Tokitsu. It seems the ideal image of the samurai we have a largely wrong, and we seem to forget that there really were two samurai era, and not a continuity: Bude Jikai (1192-1603) and Kamakura (1603-1868). Kamakura samurais were wussies compared to the Bude Jikai samurais, and yet our common conception of the samurai is that of...the Kamakura.
    I won't dwell into that and I'm certainly not interested in a scholar name dropping.

    The information is here, indeed, yet history is often an embellished lie agreed upon...so it can be tough to have certainties on some topics...
    Risk 0 doesn't exist.

  5. #50
    I stayed in the city of Kamakura the last time I visited Japan. There's supposed to be quite a lot of bushi still buried underneath the city (the place has some good ghost stories as well. )

    I am not arguing the fact that samurai (and even European knights for that matter) have a slightly different history then what people normally think of them in this day and age. For the most part I'd agree with that.
    My qualm was in the feudal "behavior ethics" not existing. It's quite obvious from texts from that era that such a "code" did indeed exist.
    But that "code" was strongly a cultural thing too, and it filtered out into basic Japanese society at the time, and not just that of the retainers.
    At the courts, the samurai were usually required to behave in a certain way, the "retainer's way."
    And as I mentioned, this "way" dealt more with court service, how to address superiors, deal with women of the court/castles, how to deal with slander, etc.

    The code of "bushido" (made famous in my opinion by people like
    Nitobe Inazo) became more romanticized the way Chivalry did with the Arthurian legends, Chaucer, etc.

    However, that being the case, does not mean that the real cultural elements were somehow fabricated all together.

    But yes, history is not always correctly written....

    Ryu
    "No judo! NO NO!"




    "One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

    Attain your highest ability, and continue past it. Emotion becomes movement. Express that which makes you; which guides you. Movement and Mind without hesitation. Physical spirituality...
    This is Jeet Kune Do....

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    685
    From what I remember of the stuffs I heard (I do not doubt the sources), Bushido was really invented by Nitobe, as a word and a concept. Anyway, I feel we do agree on the whole topic, even though we come from different ways with our points.

    BTW, Starchaser: Big up me son!!!!
    Risk 0 doesn't exist.

  7. #52

    Thumbs up

    big up king
    bless.


    and for what it's worth I can't seem to find information on
    Bude Jikai on the internet, are there any sources for this.

    Both u and ryu took this to the other level

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