Help

[trilobite]

Ok I need some help. About 6 months ago I hurt my knee really badly doing a roll in a white crane form. Well, we found out that my ligaments in my knees are really loose, so essentially every time I stress it, the knee cap pops out. I've been doing 100 squats a day now to tighten that ligament back up. The problem is that I don't think it's helping too much. If anyone has any suggestions on knee conditioning of any kind it would greatly be appreciated. Thanks!

[IronFist]

Welcome to KFO!

Have you been to a doctor? Tendons and ligaments are usually slow to heal.

so essentially every time I stress it, the knee cap pops out

Ouch! What happens when "the knee cap pops out?" Does it hurt? Can you just pop it back? I'm curious. Thanks.

IronFist

[trilobite]

I've been to a doctor and the didn't find anything. But my dad's a orthopedic specialist which means he works a lot with bones. After I showed it to him he said "Oh I know what that is." and told me that nothing a doctor could do would actually be able to tell anyway. So he told me to strengthen my quads, put ice on it everynow and then, and when it pops to stretch it out so that it lines back up properly. The problem is that I really want to nail this White Crane form. And as far as I can tell, my knee hasn't been really tightening either. Not to mention I haven't even done the roll in 6 months so I can keep it from popping as much as possible, and I have a rank advancement test in December.

Yes the popping does hurt! Very much so! Ligaments that hold it in place just pop out of place and with a little massaging and very slow leg movement I can get it back it after a while. A doctor won't be able to help me. So do any of you have ANY ideas AT ALL! Thanks.

[Shaolin-Do]

I got basically the same problem...
Lots of holding deep stances, one legged knee bends...
When it hurts, be gentle on it until it doesnt hurt. The more times you hurt it, the more often your going to hurt it. REST... Just work on your upper body while its bothering you, be very gentle on your kicks, and once again dont over do it...
Alternating heat/cold helps when mines sore... Get a good knee brace too.
When stretching your legs, if you feel the stretch behind the knee, bend the knee so you feel it in your hammies instead. Stretching behind the knee is improper stretching, although often it goes uncorrected. It will cause the problem to worsen. Thats actually one of the main things that got mine to stop popping... Fix your stretches, and see how that works.

[fa_jing]

good that you want to fix this, but don't sweat a test at your school. Your long-term health is far more important. What's rank, anyway? Your skill is not related.

[rubthebuddha]

fa_jing has again succombed to the correct. a black sash who is gimpy for the rest of his or her life isn't as good as a skilled person who can use their joints properly and has no pain from movement.

[trilobite]

Thanks for the help though everyone. If you or anyone else has any more suggestions please keep posting them.

Of course I realize that fa jing. It's just that we don't learn new material in our school until after we pass a test. And the next sash has some awesome Shaolin Bird forms in it that I really want. But I know that I'm more focused on avoiding getting a prosthetic knee when I'm 30. I'm really trying to fix this. I started Yang Lu Chan's Tai Chi Ch'uan a few months ago and I'm almost done with the 24 posture form. The bad news is that I have to wait about 6 more months for the 64 posture form which I've heard is SERIOUSLY AWESOME at rebuilding knees and such.

[Shaolin-Do]

"It's just that we don't learn new material in our school until after we pass a test"
So just relax and refine what you already know
Theres a guy in our kwoon that just got knee surgery, and often times he will just come in and sit and watch. Im sure he could still do upper body work if he wanted, but that wouldnt really be in his best interest...
Try changing your stretches for the next couple weeks as I mentioned earlier, see if that helps. I seriously had the same azz problem until I changed my stretches.

[PLCrane]

If you have problems with patellar tracking (not staying in its groove) then you need to educate your quads as well as strengthen them. Here's an exercise for that.

Sit with your knee bent and your foot hanging freely. Put your fist under your thigh (or use a blood pressure cuff wrapped around a jar and pumped up slightly) to monitor the weight of your thigh. Slowly straighten and bend the knee, trying to keep the weight of your thigh pressing against your hand constant and unchanging. The other way to understand this is that you straighten and bend your knee without moving your thigh.

Slow is better. The point is to get the vastus medialis and vastus lateralis to coordinate their efforts, so the kneecap doesn't get pulled to one side.


Good luck,
PLC

[trilobite]

Uhhhh, honestly I didn't understand that at all. I'm only 14 and I haven't been to medical school yet, plus I'm a little slow so could you be a little more detailed. Sorry

[PLCrane]

Oops. Sorry about that. Take a look at this picture. http://www.uoregon.edu/~athmed/aclrehab/antmus.jpg

Vastus medialis and lateralis are two parts of the quads (quadriceps muscle). Notice the stripes in the muscle. That shows the direction that the muscle fibers pull. Different parts of the quads pull on the kneecap in more or less opposite directions. If one side is pulling harder than the other, the kneecap can get dislocated.

OK, here's another attempt at a description of the exercise. Sit on a chair. Straighten your knee, so you're holding your foot out in front of you. Notice when you do this that your thigh presses harder against the chair seat. That's normal.

What you want to do is straighten your knee without letting the thigh push down harder against the seat. You don't want to do the opposite and raise your thigh away from the seat, either.

If you make a fist, and place it under your thigh, you can monitor how much pressure the thigh is putting on the seat. Try to keep it the same all the way through the exercise.

S - l - o - w - l - y, bend and straighten the knee. A couple minutes should be plenty. Do it several times a day.

Did that explanation work any better?

PLC

[fa_jing]

does your kneecap "jump the track" when you fully flex (bend) your knee, or more on full extension?

[trilobite]

Uhh, I really don't know what that means fa_jing.

[fa_jing]

straighten your leg. Put your fingers on your kneecap. Bend the leg, does the kneecap stay in the middle or does it move to the inside or outside when you bend your leg? And do you find that it "pops" in a particular position?

[trilobite]

stays in the middle, no pop