Mastering Kung Fu

[duende]

Originally posted by John Weiland

I saw the photo. I didn't understand it or Alex's explanation of it. I doubt that I'm better than Mas Oyama, but of all the ways to defend against a high round house kick, what would you do? I wouldn't begin to hope you'd put your hand up in that fashion for me to break,

Some of us don't know Yin from Yang, but if you cannot avoid the kick, would you put out your hand behind the incoming calf to have it broken on the kick's return, or would you choose receive it on on forearm or hand as in the picture. I question this approach, but that's just me, of course.

Regards,

John,

It's okay for you not to understand.

And hopefully without sounding condescending, let me address what I see as the root of your not understanding. Your conclusion is drawn without the awareness of NOT... I say NOT using force against force. It would be completely idiotic to try to block that powerful of a kick with direct opposing energy, as it surely would, like you state... break! It would again be idiotic to just stagnate their like a dead piece of wood for the return energy of the kick to snap.

I would reccomend taking into consideration that a photo is just a brief... very very brief moment of time. I think what actually precedes this moment in time, and what happens there after elude you.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
John W. and Hendrik--

I think that hands "blocking" an Oyama kick most likely means hospitalization....but then a demo is just a demo and a cover just a cover.

Hi Joy, John, Alex,

I understand.

the reason I ask, is to understand. See, as you know, different people uses different technics. And, different people has their strong and weakness and sometimes there are twist in the technics.... see, even with round house kicks as you already knows, TKD and Kyokushin and Muay Thai delivers them differently. with Kyokushin closer to Muay thai.

So, My intention of asking Rolling Hand is that I would like to understand. Alex did a great job explaining. And I am glad.

As for bring up the Kyokushin, Since Chango claiming I am blind, so ,I honestly brought Mas Oyamas' teaching which I have learn and still blindly bias with. Yes, I am blind because I am a Kyokushin and proud to be one. But, that is just present my view on Chango's comments. Hope that this clear things up and not mislead you people.

See, Chango loves to joke with me, sometimes he claim I am bankcrupt and sometimes he claim I am blind. Well, that is ok. It turns out I don't like about saving account investment as I think Chango see most people are. I love mix stocks and high rish stock and not putting all eggs into one basket phylosophy of the Vally. Kyokushin is a high risk stock but high pay back. once one invest in it at very young age.

I like Alex's way of communication. and believe and respect there is reason behind people doing things. So, hopefully, we all can communicate similar to Alex. who is perfect? none. but we can listern to other's reason with respect right?

[Zhuge Liang]

Hi Alex,

Originally posted by duende
To Alan (aka Zhuge Liang)

Yes we did meet when you came to check out our school, although we didn't talk that much (as you were tied up in a discussion with William). I do remember commenting though on how nice it was for Sifu Gee to cut so much into our class time for you.

It was indeed very nice of Gee sifu and I am very grateful for it. He was a very gracious host.

But with regards to kiu sau, I was thinking more along the lines of getting a "feel" for what it is like. When I met up with students of other schools, most cases I was able to get a much better understanding of their respective systems through touch (eg friendly chi sao). I felt it was unfortunate that we didn't have the time to do the same. Please consider my offer, and let me know if you or any sihengdais are interested. It's not a problem for me to come up to SF.

I might be, in fact, interested in attending a seminar. Am I correct to assume that I can find the seminar schedules on the vtmuseum website?

Thanks again,
Alan

[Chango]

Hendrick,

Quote: As for bring up the Kyokushin, Since Chango claiming I am blind, so ,I honestly brought Mas Oyamas' teaching which I have learn and still blindly bias with. Yes, I am blind because I am a Kyokushin and proud to be one. But, that is just present my view on Chango's comments.


--Ok Hendreek you seem do alot of pointing to your knowlege of the sutra. I was just wondering what is taught about "pride". You say you are "proud". Hmmm (raising and eyebrow) fascinating.

I have to say that I also enjoy reading about Mas Oyamas' teaching. He was truely a great martial artist and had excellent showmanship. From what I have read of course. Just think what it would have been like to have actual experiences with him. Reading and experiences just arn't the same Huh Hendrik?

Oh and by the way I did not know that my "bankrupt" comment caused you so much suffering that it remains with you. I appologize. Ok so now we have to do something about this blindness. LOL!

Make sure you are investing a an actual stock and not verson of the stock that seems to be reporting one thing but reality is another. Of course noone blames the Enron employees just the crooks that falsely represented Enron. The entire company was not bad just the few that choose to gain from reporting one thing while know another. So withthis in mind let us all review our portfolio and find out if the representatives are really representives of a stock or self appointed. I mean when you ask other investers about that stock. Shouldn't thye know them if asked ?

Just food for thought mr lay oops I mean Hendrick. You know I just like to joke

[MustafaUcozler]

Hi Levi,

Ok, in Weng Chun there is:

1. Weng Chun Kuen

2. Fa Kuen

3. Saam Pai Fat

4. Jong Kuen

5. Ng Jong Hei Gung (Hei Gung Form)

6. Muk Yan Jong

7. Luk Dim Boon Gwun

8. Kwun Jong (Pole Dummy)

9. Fu Mo Siong Dao (Knives)


So, can you do me a favor and tell me if all these Forms are in the book? I am asking because in the "Contents" section for the book on Andreas' website it says "All Forms" as one of the items, which would imply that all Forms are in there.

Thanks,
Mustafa

[taltos]

Originally posted by MustafaUcozler
can you do me a favor and tell me if all these Forms are in the book?

Sure. I'll check the next chance I get.

-Levi

[Edmund]

There are a few different ways to redirect the kick that could match up to the photo.

e.g. the top hand can chop down on the calf and the bottom hand can lift and turn at the ankle to twist the leg around.

Or the bottom hand can just lift with the top hand as more of a guard.

Moving the body also will prevent it from being a hard block.

Originally posted by John Weiland

I saw the photo. I didn't understand it or Alex's explanation of it. I doubt that I'm better than Mas Oyama, but of all the ways to defend against a high round house kick, what would you do? I wouldn't begin to hope you'd put your hand up in that fashion for me to break,

Some of us don't know Yin from Yang, but if you cannot avoid the kick, would you put out your hand behind the incoming calf to have it broken on the kick's return, or would you choose receive it on on forearm or hand as in the picture. I question this approach, but that's just me, of course.

Regards,

[jonp]

looks like the cover was designed in the 80's

peace

[reneritchie]

Mustafa,

Highlights from all the sets are shown, not the complete pictorial sequences of the entire sets themselves.

If you look at the main body of Sum Nung WCK, you will see the Foshan WCK of Wong Wah-Bo & Fok Bo-Chuen. Yuen Kay-San did not learn any sets from Fung (who was 70 already at the time of their training), but close range fighting methods. These are in the form of San Sik, and these San Sik do not look the same as regular SNWCK. I've discussed them with Andreas and he found them similar to some of his San Sik.

Hendrik, Rolling Hand, & Chango, please try and keep this thread free from personal references. I'm sure we're all mature enough to discuss the art and not dwell on each other.

And note, I believe Benny is a TKD kicker, not a Kyukoshin or Thai kicker, and the photograph is showing a response to that type of kick, which may well be different from what a response to a Kyokoshin or Thai kick would be.

[Phenix]

Chango,

Thank you for your advise. I agree with you. Enron is bad.

Thus, when we in the valley buy stocks. we check the vc, founder, ceo, .... products...all the line. we only buy the stock when it's ceo and founders ... are clear , identify able..and; similar to Kyokushin---"get what you see" type, but not enron's show business--- no product type which you describe well.

we want to check how the stock perform and its history of performance. such as kyokushin is one good product test by Thai fighters.

[Phenix]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Mustafa,



Hendrik, Rolling Hand, & Chango, please try and keep this thread free from personal references. I'm sure we're all mature enough to discuss the art and not dwell on each other.---r


Rene,
true.
if you read my post for joy, john, and Alex, that is what i have in mind. but, what can one do when others interested and commenting personal reference ?
ok, i will not response anymore.

And note, I believe Benny is a TKD kicker, not a Kyukoshin or Thai kicker, and the photograph is showing a response to that type of kick, which may well be different from what a response to a Kyokoshin or Thai kick would be. ---R


no disrespect, and i post before that i respect everyone's reasoning, i have no issue about demo....

however, i disagree with your ---"the photograph is showing a response to that type of kick, which may well be different from what a response to a Kyokoshin or Thai kick would be."
lets carry this topic out to a new topic.

[canglong]

Welcome to the discussion Alex your input is much appreciated considering your proximity to the source.

Zhuge Liang, best wishes with all your kiu sau training, feel free to read up more on hfy108.com.

originally posted by John Weiland
I saw the photo. I didn't understand it or Alex's explanation of it. Some of us don't know Yin from Yang...I question this approach, but that's just me, of course.

John, sounds as if you are the targeted consumer for this book. I hope you enjoy reading about proper structure, ying and yang energies and how when and what things should be questioned in modern day WCK.

originally posted by yuanfen
I think that hands "blocking" an Oyama kick most likely means hospitalization....but then a demo is just a demo and a cover just a cover.

yuanfen, using words such as "most likely" shows a lack of complete awareness. This book can help you as well.

[William E]

Welcome sihing Alex to the discussions and thank you for your invaluable insight as always.

Although I was not present at the photo shoot to me it looks like the kick that GM Gee is defeating is a sidekick with more striaght forward energy and not a snapping roundhouse kick. In this timeframe kick has already been extended with no more forward energy (absorbed) while the leg is being uprooted and his centerline about to be destroyed.

Of course this is only a snapshot in time and does not reflect the true nature of what has happened before or after.

William E.

[duende]

Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
Hi Alex,



It was indeed very nice of Gee sifu and I am very grateful for it. He was a very gracious host.

But with regards to kiu sau, I was thinking more along the lines of getting a "feel" for what it is like. When I met up with students of other schools, most cases I was able to get a much better understanding of their respective systems through touch (eg friendly chi sao). I felt it was unfortunate that we didn't have the time to do the same. Please consider my offer, and let me know if you or any sihengdais are interested. It's not a problem for me to come up to SF.

I might be, in fact, interested in attending a seminar. Am I correct to assume that I can find the seminar schedules on the vtmuseum website?

Thanks again,
Alan

Alan,

I didn't want to stray off topic but here I go...

I can see from your above post that you really don't understand Kiu Sau.
With all do respect to everyone's version of Wing Chun, let me just say that you can't just try out Kiu Sau. It's not like trying on a new pair of shoes. There are fundamental body mechanics that are absolutely required for one to perform Kiu Sau effectively.

On top of that if you consider how vastly different our two versions of Wing Chun are, then maybe you can more understand why I suggested a seminar (two days) over a simple meeting.

On the other hand if you had in mind to just try out your Chi Sau against my Kiu Sau, then I would have to say you are once again going down the wrong path. Let me explain why....


1. Kiu Sau is not meant as an opposing technique or alternative to Chi Sau. In a combat situation there are different stages or progressions that take place due to the variations in distance that occur between two opponents. Kiu Sau is meant to come at an earlier stage and lead to Chi Sau. NOT replace it.

2. Kiu Sau occurs from the blind side while Chi Sau occurs directly facing. Opponents wouldn't be facing eachother correctly.

3. Kiu Sau makes contact at the forearms, Chi Sau makes contact at the wrist. Rolling hands would require one opponent doing their technique wrong.

Kiu Sau was designed for anti-grappling and not for what you seem to think.

So now do you see why I made my earlier suggestions??? I would suggest that instead of going to different WC schools, and playing Chi Sau that you go to a Judo school and see how effective your Chi Sau is against one of there students when he rushes you. That will probably give you the best understanding as to why we have Kiu Sau in our system.

On a final note, if you are really just after seeing what our student's energy is like, then I can tell you, that we try to cultivate BOTH the hard and soft energies of Yin and Yang. On a personal note, if you are just trying to touch my hand... all I can say is that apart from coming to a seminar, or coming up to the mission SF and trying to mug me, that I have no interest in playing chi Sau.

Okay.... back to the topic!

[MustafaUcozler]

Hi Rene,

Thanks for the info. Just a question though. How did you figure out the connection between Wong Wah Bo and Fok Bo Chuen? It makes total sense to me, but didn't Sum Nung himself say that Dai Fa Min Kam taught both Fok Bo Chuen and Fung Siu Ching?

That does not quite make sense seeing how Weng Chun is so different, unless Dai Fa Min kam was a genious and knew both Wing Chun and Weng Chun.

But again, where did you find the connection between Wong Wah Bo and Fok Bo Chuen? Or did you deduct it from observation of different lineages?

Thanks,
Mustafa